Getting and Staying on Retail Shelves with Alli Ball
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Meet Alli Ball
Alli Ball is the founder & CEO of Food Biz Wiz, Inc. and the creator of Retail Ready®, an online course, coaching & community for producers of packaged product in the food industry. As a former grocery buyer-turned-wholesale consultant, Alli has helped thousands of emerging brands understand what it takes to get their products on the retail shelf- and keep them there.
Episode Highlights
During this episode of The Food Means Business Podcast, we discuss:
How Alli's transition from corporate employee to founder has helped her have a bigger impact on the food industry
The most important thing that informs all of the decisions that food business owners make
What makes grocery buyers say "Yes" and
The art of following up
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00;00;00;01 - 00;00;07;03
Ali Ball
Welcome, welcome. Welcome to the Food Means Business podcast. I'm here with Alison Ball. Do you go by Alison or Ali?
00;00;07;22 - 00;00;08;11
Ali Ball
You can call me. Ali.
00;00;08;17 - 00;00;26;16
Djenaba
Okay, Sounds good. I'm here with Ali Ball of Food Biz Wiz. And Ali, give us a little bit of information about yourself. As you know, this podcast is all about you know, reaching someone that is ready to take the leap from the cubicle to becoming a CEO. I would love to hear your story first.
00;00;27;18 - 00;00;44;05
Ali Ball
Yeah. So I took that leap eight years ago, actually. I used to be a grocery buyer, a wholesale grocery buyer here in San Francisco at a wonderful family of businesses called by Market and by family of businesses. And I did that for a long, long time.
00;00;44;20 - 00;00;45;14
Ali Ball
One long time.
00;00;45;14 - 00;01;09;17
Ali Ball
And eight years ago, I decided that I had learned enough in my role at Buy, Right. And I was ready to launch my own business so left by right and became the founder and CEO of Food Businesses, where we help emerging food, beverage, taxable grocery brands understand what it takes to land on wholesale, wholesale shelves, and have high sales once they're there.
00;01;09;20 - 00;01;18;22
Djenaba
Fantastic. Fantastic. So I have to ask then, what made you decide that it was time to take the leap?
00;01;19;09 - 00;01;19;17
Ali Ball
That's a.
00;01;19;17 - 00;01;40;02
Ali Ball
Great question. So a few things. First off, when I started up buy, right, I was working at our sole location at the time by 18th Street and my job was grocery buyer. So I was working directly with producers and figuring out how to help them succeed on ourselves. So, you know, it goes way.
00;01;40;02 - 00;01;41;28
Ali Ball
Beyond getting on the shelf.
00;01;41;28 - 00;02;08;21
Ali Ball
The main goal is that we've got these got to get these products off the shelf and really increase basket average and increase sales in our categories. And I, I loved that role. I loved finding those up and coming producers by was really, really focused on having a unique product assortment. So, so often our market was the very first account for up and coming producers.
00;02;09;03 - 00;02;21;15
Ali Ball
So I loved nurturing them and then teaching them what it would take to work on ourselves and got so much pride out of that role. And then we decided to open by right to visit Arrow, our second location, and that was about three.
00;02;21;15 - 00;02;23;10
Ali Ball
Miles away still in San Francisco.
00;02;23;22 - 00;02;33;03
Ali Ball
And my role shifted. I became head of a grocery and store manager of that wow kitchen. And in that, yeah, it was it was wild.
00;02;33;03 - 00;02;35;03
Ali Ball
We we did.
00;02;35;03 - 00;02;37;18
Ali Ball
About $7 million in our first year of open.
00;02;37;18 - 00;02;38;08
Djenaba
Amazing.
00;02;38;11 - 00;03;02;17
Ali Ball
I managed a department thank you. I managed a department that was about 3500 SKUs. So really looking at item movement of those SKUs week in and week out. And you know, what I'm alluding to is that my responsibilities really changed and I became less connected with the producers and more focused on the financial health of the grocery department.
00;03;03;03 - 00;03;31;25
Ali Ball
And that that was eye opening. I mean, you know as well as I do that margins are slim in the food industry. And it was really it was it was so important for me to have that firsthand experience of looking at a PNL weekly and realizing that that stuff was slim. And we really had to be so intentional with every moving part of our business and our store to make sure that we were a profitable business.
00;03;32;11 - 00;03;34;01
Ali Ball
So that gave me a lot of.
00;03;34;01 - 00;03;35;11
Ali Ball
Great educate in.
00;03;35;11 - 00;03;53;11
Ali Ball
However, I missed working with producers. I really I really missed the whole reason why I got into the food industry to begin with. And so I saw if I'm being very honest with you, I saw the path forward at Buy, right? That person who was.
00;03;53;23 - 00;03;58;00
Ali Ball
Who was above me, who's still a very dear friend of mine, he's still a buyer, actually.
00;03;58;10 - 00;04;04;05
Ali Ball
And I was like, I don't I don't want that job. I'm already working on the floor.
00;04;04;18 - 00;04;05;17
Ali Ball
50, 60.
00;04;05;18 - 00;04;07;11
Ali Ball
Hours a week. My husband was actually.
00;04;07;11 - 00;04;07;29
Ali Ball
Managing by.
00;04;08;04 - 00;04;08;27
Ali Ball
18th Street.
00;04;09;13 - 00;04;19;10
Ali Ball
My fiance at the time. Yeah. So we were just like in it, like I was managing the biz. Ian was managing 18th Street and we would just come home and we would sit at the.
00;04;19;10 - 00;04;25;26
Ali Ball
Table and I would say, you know, oh, I re merchandise this section and this is really working for me. And he said like, Oh well, I did this and like this.
00;04;25;26 - 00;04;29;05
Ali Ball
Is working over here. And we were just like a living, breathing pirate.
00;04;29;16 - 00;05;06;05
Ali Ball
And, you know, thank goodness it was such a wonderful company to work for that We we were all in. But I looked above me and I and I thought, you know, that's that's not really what I want, right? I respect that. And it's not for me. So I decided that, you know, after got I had been up here probably six years or so that I had I had the skills to take what I learned on the floor there and have a bigger impact in the food industry by turning to to a consultant role, knowing that I could only impact people within the walls of buy, right?
00;05;06;05 - 00;05;10;28
Ali Ball
If I stayed there and by launching on my own, I could have such a greater impact. In our industry.
00;05;11;20 - 00;05;28;27
Djenaba
It's I have to I'm sure you share this like it is so much fun working with the individual food businesses, getting to know the owner, and for me it's a getting to know their employees and their production staff as well. And like seeing a business grow, It is so exciting.
00;05;29;00 - 00;05;44;25
Ali Ball
It's so exciting. And the really cool thing is that I have a couple producers with whom I worked at Byron 18th Street that's that original location and I don't know, 2009 2010, who then hired me as a consultant and.
00;05;45;00 - 00;05;45;19
Ali Ball
Joined us.
00;05;45;19 - 00;05;47;02
Ali Ball
At retail ready and now.
00;05;47;02 - 00;05;47;25
Ali Ball
Is doing one on.
00;05;47;25 - 00;05;59;29
Ali Ball
One coaching with me, people you know, with whom I've worked for like I don't know, closely. I don't 12 years, 13 years. And it is so cool to see them having started with one single retail account.
00;06;00;10 - 00;06;01;07
Ali Ball
By market.
00;06;01;16 - 00;06;03;25
Ali Ball
And now here they are, multimillion dollar.
00;06;03;25 - 00;06;06;13
Ali Ball
Businesses. It's really spectacular.
00;06;06;13 - 00;06;19;12
Djenaba
I just love it. I love it, I love it. And congratulations to you and all that you've been able to accomplish so far is so great. So let's talk about how we get our products on to the stores, into the stores and on the shelves and how we make them fly off the.
00;06;19;12 - 00;06;24;28
Ali Ball
Shelves If all of what are summarize it in like one broadcast episode, right?
00;06;25;18 - 00;06;44;08
Djenaba
It's crazy. So I recently read one of your email. I'm on your newsletter list. It's amazing. And one of them we've talked about, you're one of your clients had an aha moment with and kind of really realizing kind of what was the most important thing that was going to inform all the decisions that they make about their business.
00;06;44;08 - 00;06;45;25
Djenaba
Can you talk about that a little bit?
00;06;45;25 - 00;06;49;17
Ali Ball
Yeah, sure. And you're actually going to test my memory here because, okay.
00;06;50;25 - 00;06;59;13
Ali Ball
I'm going to tell you, I can remind you. I'll remind you. Yes. Here you go. This is a sneak peek behind my business. And I am all about being transparent.
00;06;59;13 - 00;07;03;08
Ali Ball
So I'm going to I'm going to lay it out to you. I batch my emails.
00;07;03;23 - 00;07;09;24
Ali Ball
And so I should know. And I'm going to I give this advice to our retail ready students, too.
00;07;09;26 - 00;07;33;05
Ali Ball
So I sit down and I'm like, okay, I am in the headspace for writing. I'm going to write a month's worth of emails at once. Yes. And then pre-scheduled them and they're like, ready to go, right? And I do that. So that Monday morning doesn't come around and I'm like, Oh shoot, got to crank something out. Got to like find a.
00;07;33;05 - 00;07;37;27
Ali Ball
Nugget of wisdom. Right? So, so I'm going to peel.
00;07;37;27 - 00;07;39;00
Ali Ball
Back the curtain and say.
00;07;39;04 - 00;07;40;25
Ali Ball
You're going to have that remind me exactly that.
00;07;40;25 - 00;07;45;04
Ali Ball
Aha. So is and I, I'm betting I, I betting I know what it is.
00;07;45;09 - 00;07;46;06
Ali Ball
You do. You tell me.
00;07;46;25 - 00;08;02;02
Djenaba
So it was it it was something that's actually near and dear to me and something that I talk to people about as well is like knowing who your target audience is and that is really going to really informs all of the decisions that you make about your business.
00;08;02;20 - 00;08;18;03
Ali Ball
Yes. Okay. I know exactly what email this one, and it was the one where I basically did like a laundry list of decisions that this food preneur had to make in their business. And how would this one magic thing it made all.
00;08;18;03 - 00;08;19;07
Ali Ball
Of the other decisions.
00;08;19;07 - 00;08;30;20
Ali Ball
Easier. So if you find yourself thinking like, Should I go to Expo East in September? Should I serve? You know, should I put my.
00;08;31;00 - 00;08;34;04
Ali Ball
Adaptogen mix in individual pouches.
00;08;34;10 - 00;08;38;13
Ali Ball
Or in an eight ounce pouch where they have to scoop it out every.
00;08;38;13 - 00;08;40;20
Ali Ball
Day? Should I put.
00;08;40;27 - 00;08;45;25
Ali Ball
My product on sale for 20% off or should I do a buy one, get one free? Right.
00;08;45;25 - 00;08;48;15
Ali Ball
All of these decisions become so much.
00;08;48;15 - 00;08;53;10
Ali Ball
Easier once you identify your target audience. Right. That was the email, huh?
00;08;53;12 - 00;08;54;06
Djenaba
Yes, that was it.
00;08;54;06 - 00;09;17;08
Ali Ball
Okay. So that is the that is foundational in your food business. And it really ties into one of the things that that we preach is this right people right channel theory and it is the idea that when everyone is your target audience, you are speaking to no one. Right. And we all know this.
00;09;17;09 - 00;09;18;06
Ali Ball
Yes. Yes, we do.
00;09;18;06 - 00;09;18;29
Ali Ball
Those brands.
00;09;18;29 - 00;09;20;29
Ali Ball
That just like we we.
00;09;20;29 - 00;09;23;13
Ali Ball
Know it, but we think that like, we're the special snowflake.
00;09;24;05 - 00;09;29;05
Ali Ball
That everyone's going to go way. Yes, exactly. Like, oh, by my name.
00;09;29;15 - 00;09;34;20
Ali Ball
Everyone who tries my product says they love it. Yeah. So my products forever.
00;09;34;20 - 00;09;41;28
Ali Ball
Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's not true. And so what? Well, we really prettier is that, you know.
00;09;41;28 - 00;10;07;24
Ali Ball
Once we can get past our ego that says our product is for everyone and we can narrow down and say, who is our product, Who is our product most right for and what is that emotional connection that that person has with our brand. Then we can start developing our channel strategy. And here's really where where things have shifted over the past couple of years in Canada.
00;10;07;24 - 00;10;18;12
Ali Ball
I think this is really interesting. Historically in marketing, we would talk about demographics. Yeah, right. Like this is an Asian woman who is between 35 and 42 years old.
00;10;18;18 - 00;10;20;01
Ali Ball
And she has this.
00;10;20;09 - 00;10;42;08
Ali Ball
Income and this number of kids and all that sort of stuff. And what's really cool is as we think about building more inclusive businesses, we've shifted this and we focus much more on the psychographics and that emotional connection that we're making with our target audience. So I don't care if your target audience is a 42 year old Asian woman or an 80 year old black man.
00;10;42;08 - 00;10;42;26
Ali Ball
Right, right, right.
00;10;42;27 - 00;10;44;08
Ali Ball
16 year old white lady. Right.
00;10;44;17 - 00;10;45;18
Ali Ball
Or white teen.
00;10;46;25 - 00;11;23;03
Ali Ball
What I really care about is why are they so passionate about my brand? Why are they singing my praises from the rooftops? What problem in my solving for them? And like, what is that like emotional sigh of relief or joy or excitement or. Right, whatever it is about my product line. So we get really, really clear on that first and then we're able to say, okay, an audience who is seeking that emotion or that experience is already shopping in this particular channel, right?
00;11;23;04 - 00;11;29;17
Ali Ball
They're already looking for that emotion, that experience in this location, and that is channel.
00;11;29;17 - 00;11;37;06
Djenaba
That channel could be a website, that channel could be Amazon on that channel. It could be their local natural food store.
00;11;37;06 - 00;12;02;20
Ali Ball
Totally. That channel could be their yoga studio. That channel could be like a convenience store on the way to pick up their kids from school. Right. Right. You know, I think about where where we need to identify like where that person feels that problem or that need so acutely like I think about emergency that drink. Oh, yes, yes.
00;12;02;20 - 00;12;03;29
Ali Ball
Yeah. BRAND You know like the powdered.
00;12;04;02 - 00;12;06;07
Ali Ball
Drink package from way long ago.
00;12;06;29 - 00;12;13;26
Ali Ball
And think about their their strategy of being placed in airport Yeah.
00;12;14;02 - 00;12;17;14
Ali Ball
Stores like the airport the Hudson yes is of the world.
00;12;17;19 - 00;12;23;08
Ali Ball
Is so spot it's such a spot on example here because it's like where do people need that boost of.
00;12;23;08 - 00;12;26;01
Ali Ball
Confidence. Yes they are getting like a healthy kick.
00;12;26;01 - 00;12;49;06
Ali Ball
From their powdered drink mix. Right. It's likely as they're traveling. Yes. It's right before they're getting on that airplane. Right. And single serve. It's super convenient. So we've identified the pack size because of our target audience. Right. We've identified where we're going to sell and we're identifying like, what is that thing we're giving them? It's probably confidence, relief, reassurance, right?
00;12;49;07 - 00;13;05;10
Ali Ball
That's what we're really selling to that person. So if I took that emergency packet and I tried to sell it at hmm, let's say I tried to sell it food service right in restaurants.
00;13;05;10 - 00;13;16;24
Ali Ball
It's going to flop, right? Like I've never gone to a bar and met like, hey, along with my negroni, I'd like an emergency to please. I had this. You.
00;13;16;24 - 00;13;21;01
Djenaba
I had this image. I didn't like being in the bathroom with like 25 to 50.
00;13;22;27 - 00;13;36;29
Ali Ball
Oh, my God. I actually, I I'm going to like, why in this back here and say that, like, the founders of emergency, whoever you are, you're listening to this podcast, I think that we just came up with your new sales.
00;13;37;00 - 00;13;38;05
Ali Ball
Strategy because.
00;13;38;19 - 00;13;40;13
Ali Ball
I don't know about you but a packet.
00;13;40;13 - 00;13;44;01
Ali Ball
Of an emergency at like, you know, with my last round at a.
00;13;44;01 - 00;13;46;19
Ali Ball
Bar could be a key mover.
00;13;46;19 - 00;13;56;09
Djenaba
Oh my goodness. So what, what else would you say is the most important thing? Because, you know, obviously target audience, but let's talk about what is the next most important thing that.
00;13;56;17 - 00;14;19;12
Ali Ball
Okay, so we identify our target audience. We figure out what sales channels we're going for, right? Are we going online? Are we doing brick and mortar or are we going food service where we go in here? And then we have to figure out what is the real reason why that wholesale buyer, why that decision maker is going to say yes to our product line?
00;14;19;24 - 00;14;20;06
Ali Ball
And this.
00;14;20;06 - 00;14;20;14
Ali Ball
Is.
00;14;20;14 - 00;14;45;01
Ali Ball
Typically where people have an aha moment inside of retail, right? Where I'm sure I'm sure our founders that you work with all think that their product is delicious. They all think that their product is the best ever. Right? Right. And so typically and I would hear this as a grocery buyer, typically those sales pitches are led with with those facts.
00;14;45;01 - 00;14;46;10
Ali Ball
Right. Or those opinions.
00;14;46;10 - 00;15;03;25
Ali Ball
Right. Right. My like, hey, my name's Lauren and I make the most delicious kombucha that you have ever tried. Right. And as a wholesale buyer, I hear that pitch. And sure enough, my eyes kind of role.
00;15;04;02 - 00;15;04;23
Ali Ball
In my head.
00;15;04;23 - 00;15;06;24
Ali Ball
And I'm thinking like, yeah, Lauren.
00;15;07;01 - 00;15;12;21
Ali Ball
You and everybody, everyone, every other kombucha maker, everyone else to me this week.
00;15;12;21 - 00;15;13;14
Djenaba
Yes, right.
00;15;13;24 - 00;15;16;24
Ali Ball
If by the time you're pitching to wholesale accounts.
00;15;17;07 - 00;15;44;01
Ali Ball
The baseline is that you are a delicious product, right? So that's not your selling point. So we've really got to understand, we've really got to switch it on its head here and understand why buyers say yes or no to product lines. And typically that is the it's because, excuse me, wholesale buyers want to increase sales or margin in a particular category.
00;15;44;01 - 00;16;11;24
Ali Ball
So let's say that you are a cold brew coffee producer and that buyer is evaluating your product for their shelves. That buyer has to be convinced that by bringing in your cold brew, you are going to outpace the other products, the other cold brews or iced coffees that are already in your category on their shelf. Right. So if you come in or if I as a buyer come.
00;16;11;24 - 00;16;12;03
Ali Ball
In.
00;16;12;14 - 00;16;13;22
Ali Ball
And I say yes, okay, I'm going to.
00;16;13;22 - 00;16;14;19
Ali Ball
Bring in your your.
00;16;14;19 - 00;16;26;15
Ali Ball
Cold brew, but you don't outpace what I already have on the shelf. It's officially not worth it for me to spend all of my time, energy, labor, you know.
00;16;26;20 - 00;16;29;18
Ali Ball
Mental energy to put.
00;16;30;00 - 00;16;49;12
Ali Ball
That product on on my shelves. It's just not worth it. So we've got to think about that when we design sales strategy. Hey, think about it when we design sales pitches, right? So for your listeners, I really want you to think about how am I presenting my sales pitch to help that buyer meet their goals? Like what are the words that I'm saying?
00;16;49;12 - 00;17;03;13
Ali Ball
What am I reflecting on my cell sheet? What am I saying in my follow up emails that makes that buyer so confident that I am going to help them achieve their goals of higher margin or higher sales? So what are.
00;17;03;13 - 00;17;19;16
Djenaba
What are some examples of things that as you as a grocery buyer with you that kind of caught your eye and said, okay, this is really interesting. Like you knew there was a category that you know, you were looking to grow within your within your stores. So like you said, there's a million, you know, cookbooks in the world.
00;17;19;23 - 00;17;23;03
Djenaba
What makes you choose that one, that one product?
00;17;23;03 - 00;17;41;03
Ali Ball
Okay. It's it's a great that's a great question. So first off, it's important to remember that buyers love data. They're numbers. People like at the end of the day, the buyer's goal is to, like I said, have high sales in their category. And so we we.
00;17;41;13 - 00;17;45;28
Ali Ball
Keep saying we like I'm still a buyer here, but that's so that's what's so great.
00;17;45;28 - 00;17;53;10
Djenaba
About you and your business is that you say we when someone says we, to me that means like we're all in it together. Even though I kind of know we're not like, I feel really good. So go ahead. I'm sorry.
00;17;54;07 - 00;17;59;12
Ali Ball
Yes, we we as a buyers.
00;17;59;12 - 00;18;20;16
Ali Ball
Our job is to increase sales, right? So we look at item movement, we do category reviews. We're looking at sales data to understand the health of our departments. So we are data people through and through. And so what I want to see from a sales pitch is data. So that might be something like, you know, I'm.
00;18;20;25 - 00;18;21;01
Ali Ball
In.
00;18;21;01 - 00;18;50;27
Ali Ball
An email here on an on a phone call, Ali. We move on average four and a half cases a week in independent stores in the 94110 zip code. Okay, cool. That's my zip code. I know in other stores that are similar to mine in specialty or independent, right. You are moving on average 4.5 cases a week. That is music to my ears because I'm like, oh, shoot, that's those great movement.
00;18;50;27 - 00;19;20;01
Ali Ball
Like, let's try to replicate it on our shelves. So data like that. And so typically this is the pushback that I get, right? Sure, Ali. I'm I am just getting going. I don't have any data. I don't have sales history. What the heck do I do now? Well, I there are many, many ways to get data. And if you can prove that your category as a whole or that your product attributes are trending, there you go.
00;19;20;01 - 00;19;21;16
Ali Ball
Use that. Right. So let's say.
00;19;21;16 - 00;19;23;04
Ali Ball
I see two years ago.
00;19;23;04 - 00;19;25;25
Ali Ball
Right. And you're like, okay, I make a tumor like lemonade.
00;19;26;11 - 00;19;28;08
Ali Ball
You can say like.
00;19;28;08 - 00;19;44;14
Ali Ball
Hey, Ali, Tumor X sales. There are products with tumor as their main ingredient and I'm making the setup up are up 22% year over year for the past three years. We can see that shoppers are.
00;19;44;14 - 00;19;45;28
Ali Ball
Interested in this.
00;19;46;12 - 00;19;51;02
Ali Ball
Route for all of its health benefits. Our hero product is a tumor like lemonade.
00;19;51;06 - 00;19;55;10
Djenaba
Right? Okay. That makes a lot of sense. That makes sense. Yes, that makes total sense.
00;19;55;14 - 00;20;03;25
Ali Ball
So like and it can be stats from anything like I will you know, I'll tell you that buyer is not going and like researching.
00;20;04;01 - 00;20;04;25
Ali Ball
In like fact.
00;20;04;25 - 00;20;19;24
Ali Ball
Checking that your stats are accurate. And not that I'm saying like do not invent your stats, but if your stats are from Women's Health magazine, that's totally fine. Right? You could say Women's Health magazine says that tumor products are.
00;20;20;12 - 00;20;22;12
Ali Ball
Interesting to 50.
00;20;22;12 - 00;20;26;22
Ali Ball
6% of millennial women like go for it.
00;20;26;22 - 00;20;50;29
Djenaba
So okay, so now so we've figured out who our target audience is. We identified retail outlets that could make sense for our product based on the type that based on our target audience and based on the needs of the buyer. So now I'm ready to I'm reaching out to the buyer. So so as you so I'm this person and I have my turmeric eliminator, whatever product we want to have, and now I'm ready to talk to you and I want you to taste it.
00;20;50;29 - 00;20;53;16
Djenaba
I want you to know all about it. So like, what do I do next?
00;20;54;16 - 00;21;02;00
Ali Ball
Yes, I've got one thing that is really specific advice. I want you to pick up the phone and call the store.
00;21;03;01 - 00;21;04;27
Ali Ball
Really?
00;21;04;27 - 00;21;05;15
Ali Ball
Yeah.
00;21;05;21 - 00;21;08;29
Ali Ball
No, it's not that I do. No one does that.
00;21;09;04 - 00;21;13;21
Ali Ball
No one does that. And here's why. You know, like, we're all afraid to talk.
00;21;13;21 - 00;21;15;11
Ali Ball
On the phone nowadays is.
00;21;15;15 - 00;21;42;14
Ali Ball
Right. And it is astonishing to me how much success our retail ready students have by picking up the phone, because it is you know, it's so easy to ignore emails. It's so easy to be overwhelmed by your inbox. Right. That buyer that buyer can click delete on your email in a heartbeat. Sure is so much harder to ignore a phone call.
00;21;42;18 - 00;22;00;21
Ali Ball
Right. And the thing that we want to do is make that connection. We want to make sure that that buyer sees you as that trustworthy, dependable brand. And so if you can make that voice to voice connection, that is the first step in making it happen. So we call the store, okay, We go through our sales pitch and all of that.
00;22;01;07 - 00;22;03;18
Ali Ball
Oftentimes you'll get voice mails and stuff like that.
00;22;03;18 - 00;22;05;17
Ali Ball
I'd like truth be told. Yeah, it.
00;22;05;17 - 00;22;25;17
Ali Ball
Can be hard, of course, track down these buyers, but we are tenacious people. We are going to do that. Right. And then you likely could get to this point where you're like, okay, cool. Once the buyer tries my product, they're going to be hooked. So you likely think that I that you just need to swing by with your samples, right?
00;22;25;18 - 00;22;35;15
Ali Ball
Right. Sure. You hear this all the time at Berate folks would swing by. I literally got I would probably get three dozen samples a week.
00;22;35;21 - 00;22;37;10
Ali Ball
Really? Just. Wow.
00;22;37;10 - 00;22;37;26
Djenaba
Just swinging.
00;22;38;02 - 00;22;59;27
Ali Ball
My. Yes. Wow. It was such a pain in the butt. And I would do I mean, I am a very nice person, but I would do everything that I could to avoid getting interrupted in the middle of my workday by producers who were just swinging by with samples. Right. So that included like hiding in the walk.
00;22;59;27 - 00;23;06;13
Ali Ball
In, pretending to be on a photo, ducking around the corner really quick like I would.
00;23;06;13 - 00;23;17;16
Ali Ball
We would hide like buyers. Hide from you is true. And just think about it right? Like, imagine if you're in the middle of a production shift and someone walks on by and is like, Hello.
00;23;17;27 - 00;23;18;22
Ali Ball
Would you like.
00;23;18;22 - 00;23;25;22
Ali Ball
To look at these new compostable cups that I'm trying to sell you? Like, No, no, I'm in the middle of production, chef. No, no, thank you.
00;23;25;22 - 00;23;29;07
Ali Ball
Go away. Lock it my door. And so it's the same.
00;23;29;07 - 00;23;32;16
Ali Ball
Thing goes for buyers. They don't want to be interrupted in the middle of their workday.
00;23;32;28 - 00;23;34;26
Ali Ball
And so. So two things.
00;23;34;26 - 00;23;48;23
Ali Ball
Here. One, we always set a day and a time to drop off sale. Okay? We're not just blinds swinging by, right? We are being courteous people who respect the buyers time. So no swinging by. This isn't even a COVID thing. Like I have said this for.
00;23;48;24 - 00;23;49;11
Ali Ball
Oh, forever.
00;23;49;11 - 00;23;50;29
Djenaba
Okay. Okay, great, guys. Forever. Got it.
00;23;51;00 - 00;23;54;11
Ali Ball
Do not swing. Don't just be courteous. Like, don't interrupt someone's workday.
00;23;54;11 - 00;23;54;21
Djenaba
Right.
00;23;55;13 - 00;24;15;14
Ali Ball
You set a date and time. And what happens, though, is so often people think, okay, I'm just going to blind ship these samples to the store. I'm going to address them to the buyer, or I can't get a hold of the buyer. So I'm going to go and I'm going to drop off these samples and I'm going to leave them with that lovely cashier who promises that they're going to be handed.
00;24;15;14 - 00;24;21;20
Ali Ball
To the grocery buyer. And here's the problem with that. You're laughing. You probably know what's going to happen.
00;24;21;20 - 00;24;32;00
Ali Ball
Right? But let's say you make a really beautiful chocolates. You give them to the cashier, and that cashier is like, Man, these chocolates.
00;24;32;00 - 00;24;33;01
Ali Ball
Look beautiful and I.
00;24;33;01 - 00;24;40;02
Ali Ball
Don't have a birthday present for my girlfriend next week. Yes. These are coming home with me. Yes. You know, and I say this like, you know, knowing that.
00;24;40;02 - 00;24;45;04
Ali Ball
Cashiers have the best of intentions, Right? You know, I'm not I'm not a trash talking cashier.
00;24;45;18 - 00;25;10;07
Ali Ball
You know, in the best case scenario, your products are so delicious that, of course, that cashier wants to bring them home. Of course. Or that or that cashier can't find the grocery. Right? They try to find them and they can't. Or somehow they end up in the staff break room. Or the worst thing, the worst thing that can happen is that they end up in the grocery buyers sample box and this is something.
00;25;10;07 - 00;25;11;27
Ali Ball
That nobody talks about.
00;25;12;17 - 00;25;27;00
Ali Ball
But literally every retail store that I have worked with has a sample box and basically what it is is like a dusty, overflowing cardboard box that lives somewhere in back stock.
00;25;27;05 - 00;25;28;25
Ali Ball
Near the grocery buyer's desk.
00;25;29;06 - 00;25;33;13
Ali Ball
And sample is just get tossed in there day.
00;25;33;13 - 00;25;35;10
Ali Ball
In and day out. And what's the what's.
00;25;35;10 - 00;25;40;29
Djenaba
The likelihood of someone going, oh, I think I'm looking for a new hummus. I think I'm going to dig through the box.
00;25;42;06 - 00;25;53;25
Ali Ball
Okay. So you may have I'm not sure if you've gotten this email from me yet. I'm not sure. It depends like where you are in my email sequence. But I.
00;25;53;25 - 00;25;55;17
Ali Ball
Have a story and this is actually one of.
00;25;55;17 - 00;25;57;29
Ali Ball
The this was like a turning moment for me about. Right.
00;25;58;29 - 00;26;21;18
Ali Ball
I went to pull down the sample box and it was it was it was so ridiculous. We put it on a high shelf above the desk and I pulled it down and we had one sample box that was refrigerated samples and one sample box that was shelf stable samples. And I pulled the box down and rancid milk poured all over my body.
00;26;22;12 - 00;26;22;28
Ali Ball
It was.
00;26;23;11 - 00;26;25;11
Ali Ball
Awful. And I remember that moment.
00;26;25;18 - 00;26;38;12
Ali Ball
Just being like, I do not get paid enough. Like I've done, but I was just like, someone has to spread the word of the sample box to these producers.
00;26;38;12 - 00;27;03;25
Ali Ball
Yes. And, you know, like wrap it up here, realizing that when your products get put in the sample box, they get separated from your cell sheet, they get opened and snacked on by a hungry staff who are looking for some snacks. They get crumbled. They get, you know, certainly not how you want your precious products to be presented to that buyer.
00;27;04;02 - 00;27;13;17
Ali Ball
And we would sit down and we would go through that sample box, you know, every three, four months, depending on how busy we were. And so, like, that can be if you've got.
00;27;13;17 - 00;27;15;15
Ali Ball
A three week.
00;27;15;15 - 00;27;42;18
Ali Ball
Shelf life, you can't afford to wait three months for that grocery buyer to try your product, not wait. And so I like this. This is why something as innocent as leaving your products in that like brown craft bag with the cashier can really be detrimental to your brand because you don't know if the buyers ever received them. You don't know if they've tried them, you don't know if they're sitting in the sample box somewhere else.
00;27;42;23 - 00;27;54;00
Ali Ball
You don't have enough information to make a conscious, wise next step in your sales pipeline because you literally don't know where your samples are.
00;27;54;10 - 00;27;55;13
Djenaba
Right? Wow.
00;27;56;00 - 00;28;00;21
Ali Ball
So you see that. So this is a buyer. So do not do that. Do not.
00;28;00;21 - 00;28;03;17
Ali Ball
Do that. Can't get the samples directly to them.
00;28;05;04 - 00;28;06;07
Ali Ball
You know, real quick.
00;28;06;18 - 00;28;15;11
Ali Ball
Don't take up. Don't expect to taste with them. You know, don't expect anything beyond. Here are my samples, Here's my sales sheet. I will follow up with you next week.
00;28;15;29 - 00;28;23;29
Djenaba
So great. So now it's time. It's time for me to follow up now. So I. Yeah. What am I doing? How am I doing this? I'm going to get a response. I'm actually. I get a response. Yes.
00;28;24;15 - 00;28;27;14
Ali Ball
Oh, my gosh. Okay. So we've got this is actually.
00;28;27;14 - 00;28;48;05
Ali Ball
One of my favorite things about retail already. We have something called scripted success, and it's literally a flow chart of, you know, email one if they open it, if they don't, if they respond like take this path, this pass this path, and we've got it all templated here. So first off, I'll say I love yeah, I love systematizing things.
00;28;48;05 - 00;29;10;05
Ali Ball
So if you're just getting started with this, do yourself a favor and make templates. So again, you're not reinventing the wheel in every step of the process, but what you want to do is you want to send that follow up email that has your sell sheet and your price lists attached to it, and some really brief bullets about why your product is the right fit for their store.
00;29;10;24 - 00;29;30;04
Ali Ball
And then here's the kicker. Then you want to make sure that email ends with some sort of call to action for the next step with a buyer. And typically what I see is brands will say like, you know, here's my sales price list, here's all my great information. Have a great day.
00;29;31;12 - 00;29;41;14
Ali Ball
Nice to meet you. Signing up instead of Lauren instead of instead of what asking which is like, Yeah, write.
00;29;41;24 - 00;29;47;15
Ali Ball
A first order. Or when can I deliver a first order? Or I can offer an.
00;29;47;15 - 00;29;48;07
Ali Ball
Introductory.
00;29;48;07 - 00;29;59;14
Ali Ball
Promo for the next four orders placed within the next 21 days? Yes. You seem to be really interested in the blueberry flavor. Can I write that first order for you?
00;29;59;21 - 00;30;00;21
Djenaba
Ask for the reasons.
00;30;00;21 - 00;30;11;13
Ali Ball
For the sale? Yes. As for the business, yes. That's like the the number one thing. If people think nothing away from this episode, ask for the business and your sales will increase. But then from there.
00;30;11;26 - 00;30;12;04
Ali Ball
Yes.
00;30;12;19 - 00;30;15;07
Ali Ball
Do you believe, like the next complaint we hear.
00;30;15;07 - 00;30;18;05
Ali Ball
From producers is, is that buyers just.
00;30;18;05 - 00;30;44;03
Ali Ball
Ghost them and they express interest in your product and they say yes, and then we never hear from them again. Right. Right. And I'll tell you, it's really important as a producer to understand all of the steps that it takes to bring a product to the retail shelves. So there's so much work on the back end that has to be done in order to get to that final stage of selling the product.
00;30;44;12 - 00;31;10;22
Ali Ball
And so typically what happens is that buyer expresses interest like and genuinely like we can trust them. They're not going to lead you on, right? They are interested in your product, But there's so many moving parts that they've got to sort out before they can place that first order. So we want to make sure that as a producer you are emailing them or connecting with them every few weeks to stay top of mind with them.
00;31;11;04 - 00;31;18;16
Ali Ball
And so I actually have them. So it's like one of two ways, right? Either that's a yes and they kind of wait.
00;31;19;01 - 00;31;19;10
Ali Ball
And.
00;31;19;15 - 00;31;22;27
Ali Ball
Figure out things behind the scenes or they say no, right or.
00;31;22;29 - 00;31;23;14
Ali Ball
No, or.
00;31;23;14 - 00;31;41;04
Ali Ball
They you never hear back from them again. Right, Right, right. And so it's there's two different two different paths that we can take here depending on what it is. But I want to tell you, I've got two stats that are really, really crazy. And these are both pulled from HubSpot, which is a CRM that we recommend in in retail.
00;31;41;04 - 00;32;00;12
Ali Ball
Ready. So HubSpot says that 60% of customers, so 60% of these buyers, they're your customers say no four times before they say yes, whereas 48% of salespeople never make a single follow up attempt.
00;32;01;04 - 00;32;04;01
Djenaba
That is crazy, crazy, crazy.
00;32;04;01 - 00;32;06;06
Ali Ball
Yeah. So just and so.
00;32;06;06 - 00;32;07;08
Djenaba
Yes, it's so crazy.
00;32;07;08 - 00;32;09;27
Ali Ball
Just the just the just the follow up.
00;32;09;27 - 00;32;18;12
Ali Ball
So, you know, And so 48% of salespeople never make a single follow up attempt. So I mean, that's basically half right. So half of you listening.
00;32;19;00 - 00;32;19;24
Ali Ball
I'm going to challenge.
00;32;19;24 - 00;32;34;02
Ali Ball
You and say if you don't follow up after that initial no or if you just never get a response, you are leaving money on the table for sure. Great. So that's had 60%, 60% of your sales leads say no, four.
00;32;34;02 - 00;32;37;17
Ali Ball
Times or they're going to ghost you four times before.
00;32;37;17 - 00;32;54;26
Ali Ball
They say yes. Right. So that's the first thing. We want to make sure that we've got that follow up sequence in place so that it becomes automatic. That's also one of the things one of the reasons why I love having templates, because it takes that emotion out of what should I say? Am I annoying?
00;32;54;26 - 00;32;57;20
Ali Ball
Like, should I do this? Like there's all.
00;32;57;25 - 00;32;59;16
Ali Ball
There's so much like drama that we make.
00;32;59;16 - 00;33;00;19
Ali Ball
Up. Yeah, we do it.
00;33;00;20 - 00;33;05;28
Djenaba
We total it's totally in our heads and we know it, but we and I even I'm guilty of doing that as well.
00;33;07;01 - 00;33;11;01
Ali Ball
Oh, me too. Me too. Me too. So like, we want to make sure.
00;33;11;01 - 00;33;30;00
Ali Ball
That you are just template sizing everything. And so that when you sit down, I mean, it's kind of like what I admitted to at the beginning, sitting down in the head space of writing email, writing that you craft the most ideal emails and you've got them ready to roll, ready to customize a bit and ready to roll. And then I've got another stat to share with you here.
00;33;31;00 - 00;33;47;08
Ali Ball
80% of sales require five of follow up calls and 44% of salespeople give up after one follow up call. So same sort of thing, 80% of sales require five follow up calls.
00;33;47;09 - 00;33;47;23
Ali Ball
It's because.
00;33;47;23 - 00;33;48;26
Ali Ball
So if you're stopping.
00;33;49;01 - 00;33;51;09
Ali Ball
Yeah, yeah, they're so busy, they're busy.
00;33;51;15 - 00;34;07;04
Djenaba
You're not the only person that they're you're contacting their boss may have given them another priority or some other, some something else to go for that's more important than, than you at the moment. So like you told all people, we have different priorities. So just follow up.
00;34;08;05 - 00;34;08;17
Ali Ball
Yeah.
00;34;08;17 - 00;34;31;16
Ali Ball
And I think there's something like there's something that's really freeing about recognizing that sales is service. Yes. And that by following up, you are doing that wholesale buyer a favor, right? I had so many times when I would have producers follow up with me and I would say, Oh my God, thank thank you so much for calling me.
00;34;31;23 - 00;34;43;12
Ali Ball
I have to admit, like, I lost your business card or I've been out sick for the past week or whatever it is. Thank you so much for coming back. On my radar. Yes, I'm ready to place an order that.
00;34;43;15 - 00;35;02;23
Djenaba
Yeah, that's amazing. That's amazing. Following. Yeah, it's. It's such a follow up thing, but such a such a large, such a large thing. So. And yeah, I'm going to switch gears here a little bit and edit this out, but so I wanted to talk to you about what you're celebrating. So we have what we call the Money Bell at Hudson Kitchen.
00;35;02;23 - 00;35;13;08
Djenaba
And so whenever someone has something exciting to celebrate, they ring the bell kind of in our lobby. So I'm wondering, what are you ringing the bell about this recently?
00;35;13;08 - 00;35;14;25
Ali Ball
Gosh. Well, okay.
00;35;15;05 - 00;35;22;27
Ali Ball
Can I give two things? Sure. Okay, cool. We do a lot of celebrating here. Like, let me look at my list. My list is.
00;35;22;27 - 00;35;23;27
Ali Ball
Celebrating. I love.
00;35;23;27 - 00;35;24;25
Ali Ball
This. Okay.
00;35;25;26 - 00;35;35;02
Ali Ball
The a big, big thing is that I just got back from nine days of being on vacation. Completely off email.
00;35;35;12 - 00;35;39;00
Djenaba
You mean really on vacation? Like, really real vacation.
00;35;39;10 - 00;35;45;17
Ali Ball
I didn't bring my computer. I purposefully took Instagram off my phone.
00;35;47;20 - 00;35;49;02
Ali Ball
And I went to a place that didn't.
00;35;49;02 - 00;35;49;28
Ali Ball
Have cell service.
00;35;50;12 - 00;35;55;13
Ali Ball
And so I set myself up. You know, I put myself in an.
00;35;55;13 - 00;36;05;09
Ali Ball
Environment where I wouldn't be working. But beyond that, I've I've built a team. We're a team of four and a team of contractors Beyond that, four employees, team of contractors.
00;36;05;21 - 00;36;07;22
Ali Ball
That do who.
00;36;07;22 - 00;36;26;29
Ali Ball
I trust so much. And I knew that nothing was going to be so, you know, so important that I needed to be on email or on Slack or on Instagram during the week of my vacation. So that was a really, really big win. It's taken me eight years.
00;36;27;03 - 00;36;28;29
Ali Ball
Of being in business to get to this point.
00;36;29;20 - 00;36;42;02
Ali Ball
But that it feels like a really big win. And it really it is brought me back with with, you know, a refresh rate enthusiasm for my business that that was that's a big, big win for me.
00;36;42;03 - 00;36;42;16
Djenaba
Huge.
00;36;42;25 - 00;36;56;08
Ali Ball
And then the second one the second one, I am just completing a 200 hour leadership coaching certification program. Wow. And I will sit for my exam next month and all.
00;36;56;08 - 00;37;03;20
Ali Ball
Signs point to my passing this exam. You know, you'll have to follow up with me in a month from now. But 202.
00;37;03;20 - 00;37;17;29
Ali Ball
Hundred hours of coaching supervision, coach, training one on one coaching with clients. I mean, it has been a really, really rigorous program. And I'm I'm very proud that 18 months later I'm about to complete it.
00;37;18;07 - 00;37;29;10
Djenaba
Amazing. Congratulations on that. That's so exciting you so Well, during our our conversation you spoke a lot about retail ready so tell us about retail ready and how someone can participate.
00;37;30;17 - 00;37;55;00
Ali Ball
Yeah. Thank you for asking. Retail ready is our signature program. It is the only way that I work with clients, my team and I work with clients, and it's for food, beverage and taxable grocery brands who want to understand the behind the scenes of wholesale. So just like we talked about, how do I land on those retail shelves, whether they're digital or physical shelves, and how do I create a sales and marketing plan?
00;37;55;04 - 00;38;06;26
Ali Ball
So that I sell through once I actually get there. So we do that inside of our program that has it's curriculum based, coaching based and community based. So all.
00;38;06;26 - 00;38;07;07
Ali Ball
Those.
00;38;07;07 - 00;38;27;01
Ali Ball
Things come together to create this, this really robust program that gives tools and support to implement the learning. So like I said, I've been teaching retail ready for about six years. We've had close to 1500 brands go through retail ready, which are amazing. And so so now.
00;38;27;16 - 00;38;29;17
Ali Ball
It's grown to is it grown.
00;38;29;17 - 00;38;31;13
Ali Ball
So much larger than I ever.
00;38;31;13 - 00;38;38;08
Ali Ball
Imagined back when, you know, my first cohort of like six people. And the very.
00;38;38;08 - 00;38;57;00
Ali Ball
The thing that's really special about retail ready is that we've got the buyer side from me. And then one of my colleagues, Charlie Burkinshaw, he is the founder of Element Shrub, a package ready to drink and concentrate beverage line. So he joined my team over two years ago to provide that producer perspective inside of retail ready as well.
00;38;57;00 - 00;39;07;00
Ali Ball
So together I feel like we really are that full package and providing all of the resources that that brands need to to succeed in wholesale.
00;39;07;05 - 00;39;16;01
Djenaba
I love that. I love that. So tell tell us how tell everyone how that we can reach out to you and how can we how can we find you and participate in the program?
00;39;16;01 - 00;39;22;20
Ali Ball
Yes. Okay. So I am most active on Instagram. So if you are listening to this episode, I invite.
00;39;22;20 - 00;39;27;05
Ali Ball
You to screenshot this. It would actually be really fun if you tagged to.
00;39;27;15 - 00;39;45;16
Ali Ball
And I have in your in your stories as you're listening. That would be really fun. I'm at it's Allie ball or send me a demo. I love I love following food businesses so send me a dime. I'll follow you back and kind of scope out your brand behind the scenes. And once you're ready to learn more about retail ready, I've got to two places to go.
00;39;45;23 - 00;40;06;05
Ali Ball
First off, we have a wait list. It's just had Allie Balkan slash waitlist and we always have a Quickstart option. So while we do some live launches and like live cohorts throughout the year, we always have the option for people to put your name on the waitlist on that confirmation page. You'll get the option to like Quickstart into retail ready.
00;40;06;05 - 00;40;10;12
Ali Ball
So if you're like listening to this podcast and you're like, I have to start right now.
00;40;11;14 - 00;40;14;08
Ali Ball
Right now, Ali, go to that list page and.
00;40;14;08 - 00;40;15;14
Ali Ball
Find that Quickstart option.
00;40;15;26 - 00;40;17;12
Ali Ball
And then the second one is.
00;40;17;19 - 00;40;36;15
Ali Ball
I have a tool that I'll give you guys. It's totally free. It's called my 100 buyer knows Download and it is 100 reasons why buyers say no to your product line and my steps for turning that no into a yes. So that's totally free. And it's just at Alibaba.com slash 100.
00;40;37;06 - 00;40;50;26
Djenaba
Thank you so much. So we will definitely link up with that in the show notes. That's amazing. So Ali Ball, thank you so much for being a part of our one of our first hour Food Means Business podcast episodes. I truly appreciate it and I look forward to getting to know you better.
00;40;52;02 - 00;40;55;20
Ali Ball
My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me and congratulations on the podcast launch.
00;40;55;20 - 00;40;56;22
Djenaba
Thank you. Thank you.
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