Clean Comfort Food with Ayeshah Abuelhiga
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Meet Ayeshah Abuelhiga
Meet Ayeshah Abuelhiga, the founder and CEO of Mason Dixie Foods, the fastest-growing frozen convenient comfort foods company in the United States. Ayeshah has a passion for providing high-quality, clean-label comfort food options in an industry that was heavily lacking in this area. At just 28 years old, she opened a biscuit-centric restaurant and pop-up series in Washington, D.C., which quickly gained a loyal following. In 2015, Mason Dixie Foods expanded into retail stores, becoming the only clean-label ready-to-bake biscuit brand on the market. Today, the company has expanded its offerings to include biscuits, scones, and breakfast sandwiches, available in over 8,000 stores nationwide and at Marriott Hotels across the US.
Episode Highlights
During this episode of The Food Means Business Podcast, we discuss:
Growing up the oldest child of immigrants and watching her parents make their own success as entrepreneurs
What it’s like to be a person of color in Corporate America
Her decision to open a fast-casual restaurant while working a full-time job
How she accidentally started a frozen CPG brand that helped scale her business during the Pandemic
Creating a corporate culture within her business where employees can really bring their whole selves to work
How business problems exist even as your business scales, and the importance of remaining agile and responsive to change
That confidence and belief in oneself can be the key to success as an entrepreneur
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00;00;00;15 - 00;00;24;28
Djenaba
You were listening to the Food Means Business podcast, which features the personal stories and secret ingredients behind what it's like to abandon your day job to start a food business. I'm Jean Robert Johnson Jones, former marketing executive turned entrepreneur and founder of food business incubator Hudson Kitchen. Join a community of fellow food, business owners and subject matter experts to learn and laugh with us as we explore a startup world that's a little more culinary and a lot less corporate these days.
00;00;25;07 - 00;00;29;15
Djenaba
So Asha, thank you so much for being a part of the Food Means Business podcast.
00;00;29;29 - 00;00;31;09
Ayeshah
Thank you for having me.
00;00;31;21 - 00;00;40;25
Djenaba
Absolutely. So I want to jump right in. So this podcast is all about taking the leap from a corporate job to launching a food business. I'd love to hear your story.
00;00;41;26 - 00;01;16;01
Ayeshah
Yeah. So I actually left a almost 15 year career in all sectors. I started out in government contracting. I moved into development consulting, I was in consumer electronics. And then I ended up the last part of my career in automotive. I ended up working at Audi, actually, but before that I was in automotive research. And I was just the one that was tired because as a woman of color, I was really tired of waiting my turn, waiting my turn.
00;01;17;12 - 00;01;39;08
Ayeshah
You know, I think a lot of folks in the corporate world, we do that thing where we jump and we leave just because we need the advancement. Right. So I had jumped so many times and then I got to the highest position I could really get to at at the organization. And then it was like, what am I going to do, sit here for 30 years to wait for a C-suite role?
00;01;39;11 - 00;01;47;28
Ayeshah
At which point, you know, as a woman, it'd probably be director or chief of h.r. Marketing because that's all women do, right?
00;01;47;28 - 00;01;49;26
Djenaba
And then they'll tag the DNI on the on the top.
00;01;50;06 - 00;01;55;10
Speaker 3
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They get two jobs at a.
00;01;55;14 - 00;01;57;29
Ayeshah
Time because it was a white guy who would just be out of a job.
00;01;58;00 - 00;01;58;26
Djenaba
Yes, exactly.
00;02;00;06 - 00;02;21;02
Ayeshah
You know, and like, look, I think in the day, you know, I'm an intelligent person. I was in production management, I was in marketing business dove. I just didn't see myself waiting 30 years for my turn. And it's funny, though, because I would say I'm a first generation American and my parents were like, whatever you do, you go to college, you become a doctor, you become a lawyer.
00;02;21;22 - 00;02;28;29
Ayeshah
I don't know why an immigrant parents minds. They think that when you go to college and you get a job, it means that you don't work, but you get paid millions of dollars.
00;02;29;23 - 00;02;35;03
Speaker 3
I looked like it was a very different world if you're a slave to somebody else. Yes.
00;02;35;13 - 00;03;00;23
Ayeshah
So, yes. You know, they never really encouraged us to think entrepreneurial, even though they did. They they were both entrepreneurs. And I'm sure we'll get into that a little bit, but I think that's that upbringing and watching them make their own success, I think very much so. I was just born into that. And in the corporate environment, you don't really get rewarded for entrepreneurial passion and drive.
00;03;01;14 - 00;03;20;25
Ayeshah
So I was tired of just stifling that and I decided to take a leap of faith and myself and kind of go back to where my my parents kind of grew up in this in this world and industry. And I decided to go back into food and start a restaurant concept at that point.
00;03;21;13 - 00;03;24;09
Djenaba
So where your parents happy about this choice or.
00;03;25;11 - 00;03;25;25
Ayeshah
No.
00;03;26;17 - 00;03;27;04
Speaker 3
In fact.
00;03;27;18 - 00;03;33;20
Ayeshah
My my dad passed away in 2019, and even on his deathbed, he still asked me if I was going to go back to consulting.
00;03;33;21 - 00;03;34;11
Djenaba
Oh, wow.
00;03;35;19 - 00;03;42;02
Speaker 3
Okay, Dad, you know, my daddy let it go. And he, you know, it just.
00;03;42;02 - 00;03;54;03
Ayeshah
You know, I guess it was just so foreign for them to think that their kids would want to struggle. Right. But, you know, they didn't get to when you're when you're in an office environment, you don't get to see how you're struggling. It's a different struggle. Right.
00;03;54;04 - 00;03;54;22
Djenaba
Definitely.
00;03;55;21 - 00;04;11;16
Ayeshah
I rather sweat my own sweat for my own reward versus giving it to somebody else again. So I think that was that. They just never had that perspective. Right. So it's hard for them to wrap their heads around it even to this day. Right, right, right. But yeah.
00;04;11;16 - 00;04;16;18
Djenaba
So. So let's talk about your restaurant. Your it was a fast casual, casual restaurant, correct?
00;04;16;27 - 00;04;17;07
Ayeshah
Yes.
00;04;17;11 - 00;04;22;07
Djenaba
So tell me about like how you got the idea for for the restaurant and what happened there.
00;04;22;25 - 00;04;42;18
Ayeshah
Yeah. So I started the concept in Washington, D.C., because that's where I was working. And what I noticed that was happening in that environment was there's this huge boom of fast casual activity. Right? There were Sweetgreen, there was Cava, there was Five Guys. Right. So there's a lot of energy around bringing these new fast casual concepts to bear.
00;04;42;18 - 00;05;05;27
Ayeshah
So I thought it would be a good place to tack on to that energy and potentially investors. But what I didn't really anticipate was that it was this was 2014. This is the era of Top Chef, right? This was everybody who was tatted up and had potentially some kind of a criminal history. You know, got to show. And, you know, that's how they got a restaurant.
00;05;05;27 - 00;05;31;28
Ayeshah
Right. So I didn't I didn't have any of that. So I came in and I was a business person and I was like, I'm I'm trying to think about this concept from the fact that I'm sick and tired of the fact that there's not a diverse, modern interpretation of Southern American comfort food. Right. I thought it was a sacrilege that KFC and Popeyes and even worse, Chick fil A are the global image of American comfort food.
00;05;32;04 - 00;05;51;12
Ayeshah
Yes. And even beyond that. Right. Those are legacy brands. Those are those are old school brands. And they're kind of cartoony. Right. And that's not the modern consumer. And the fact that, like, the ingredients were bad, the fact that kids are eating this because what kid doesn't like fried chicken? I know. It's like it's.
00;05;51;23 - 00;05;52;23
Djenaba
Repeating it for sure.
00;05;52;24 - 00;06;00;20
Ayeshah
Absolutely. Yeah, right. But and I did, too. But I watched my mom pluck a chicken. I will never do that again because that was the scariest thing I've ever experienced.
00;06;01;06 - 00;06;03;15
Speaker 3
Oh, God. And when she was like seven, the next.
00;06;04;06 - 00;06;07;02
Ayeshah
One time, she threw it over to me and I thought had the head on it. I was like.
00;06;07;17 - 00;06;08;14
Speaker 3
Oh, my God.
00;06;09;12 - 00;06;10;02
Ayeshah
Oh, Lord.
00;06;10;28 - 00;06;11;05
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00;06;11;05 - 00;06;32;21
Ayeshah
Like when you when you watch where your food comes from and then you taste that, you're like, wow, right? That's that's fried chicken. That's collard greens. That's chitlins, right? Yep. And then you get to Chick-Fil-A and you get them little nugs that they give you and that nasty, sad biscuit in the fabulousness of it all, I'm just like, wait, how did we stop thinking about taste and quality?
00;06;32;28 - 00;06;53;19
Ayeshah
Right, right. That was the premise of that entire cuisine. So, you know, I wanted to return to that. And, you know, when I was when I was young, I grew up in Section eight housing. We were really poor because we were trying to make it and I remember my parents from a very young age, they taught us you should eat fresh fruit, right?
00;06;53;19 - 00;07;17;13
Ayeshah
So we used to go to the farmers markets and we get all the brews produce and they would can it they would kick it, they would jam it, they would do everything right. Yep. To preserve what they could. And then even when we went to the supermarket, we never bought meat or produce in a grocery store. And I'll never forget one time my dad was trying to teach us about what good produces, and he, like, pulled out.
00;07;18;13 - 00;07;23;16
Ayeshah
I actually I grabbed a cucumber, and it was, like, this big, and I was like, daddy work.
00;07;23;17 - 00;07;25;06
Speaker 3
And he was like, Put that down.
00;07;25;06 - 00;07;26;19
Ayeshah
That's where the donkeys and I was.
00;07;26;19 - 00;07;28;11
Speaker 3
Like, What? Right.
00;07;29;08 - 00;07;48;26
Ayeshah
But in retrospect, he was right. That would be the trash. We like the weird stuff he gave to the animals. And you would eat, you know, normal, small things. So that's how it grew. So I just always had that image in my head of like, everything that's out there. Like, like look at a chicken breast, a normal chicken does not have a Dolly Parton thighs breast.
00;07;48;26 - 00;07;50;23
Djenaba
It is true. It is true.
00;07;50;29 - 00;08;09;08
Ayeshah
How did we get there? So that's where I was like, you know, really searching for an opportunity to auto correct that like we were one of the first restaurants to even offer hormone free, antibiotic free and whenever possible, organic chicken. Wow. And you would not believe how many people were like, there's not a lot of meat on this.
00;08;09;08 - 00;08;13;26
Ayeshah
You know what I'm like? Because that's a normal bird. Like that's how it's supposed to be.
00;08;14;04 - 00;08;17;15
Djenaba
That people are being conditioned. Yeah, they've been conditioned over the years, right.
00;08;17;19 - 00;08;18;14
Ayeshah
Yeah. Yeah.
00;08;18;14 - 00;08;19;22
Djenaba
Bigger is always better.
00;08;19;28 - 00;08;38;27
Ayeshah
That's right. Yeah. And but then was disturbing. Right. But then when they tasted it, I mean we opened up our first spot in northeast D.C., which is not one. It's a food desert. Mm hmm. Two, it's a predominantly African-American quadrant of the city. And there was no access to clean label. There was no access to Better for you.
00;08;38;28 - 00;08;57;18
Ayeshah
They were eating at checkers, McDonald's, Taco Bell. That was it. So when we opened up, it was like a whole new world. Like, we almost had to recondition them to trust the food, which was sad to me. Right? The fact that they trusted these horrifying brands that were killing them and not understanding what we were trying to do at first.
00;08;57;23 - 00;09;02;29
Ayeshah
But then once, once they got in, girl, they got in like people. Yeah. I mean.
00;09;02;29 - 00;09;06;08
Speaker 3
Wines, hours and hours. We had a line.
00;09;06;08 - 00;09;07;26
Ayeshah
Two miles long to the drive thru the.
00;09;08;02 - 00;09;08;18
Djenaba
Crazy.
00;09;08;22 - 00;09;23;20
Ayeshah
Crazy, crazy. It was crazy. So the acceptance is there and I think people just did it. I mean, so conditioned to not even know what to look for. So it was a it was a proud moment to be able to offer that route into correcting what was being done and comfort food.
00;09;24;04 - 00;09;27;27
Djenaba
That's great. And so how many restaurants do you end up opening locations that you end up having?
00;09;28;05 - 00;09;48;19
Ayeshah
So we started with a food stall in a in a food hall that was only like 80 square feet. And then we opened a drive thru restaurant and then we opened an in-line restaurant close to Harvard University. So we were at one point, you know, we had to go at any one point and then COVID hit. So we ended up closing the restaurant operations down.
00;09;49;02 - 00;09;53;24
Ayeshah
But at the same time, the frozen food business just blew up.
00;09;53;24 - 00;09;57;20
Djenaba
So we had to stop and have a moment for the biscuits. Yes, they're amazing.
00;09;59;25 - 00;10;16;21
Djenaba
As I said in my email, my favorite is the cheddar. So like, I'm just hands down. It's wonderful. And I do my like my parents are from the south. We go, you know, we go back and visit and my uncle would make these biscuits and it just reminded me of home and reminded me that I didn't have to make them and I could still get something that tasted really good.
00;10;16;22 - 00;10;19;01
Speaker 3
So. So yeah.
00;10;19;16 - 00;10;22;17
Ayeshah
For the walking advertising market.
00;10;22;27 - 00;10;23;28
Speaker 3
Yes.
00;10;23;28 - 00;10;25;21
Djenaba
I will be your brand ambassador.
00;10;26;10 - 00;10;26;28
Speaker 3
I need to send.
00;10;26;28 - 00;10;27;27
Ayeshah
You some stuff, so let me.
00;10;29;01 - 00;10;29;21
Speaker 3
Know where to find it.
00;10;29;22 - 00;10;45;03
Djenaba
Okay. So, so let's talk about that. So as you know, kind of COVID hits and the restaurants are closing that your frozen food business is ramping up. Can you talk a little bit about how you got into that business in the first place and then what you've been doing in the past couple of years to grow?
00;10;45;04 - 00;11;08;27
Ayeshah
Yeah, it was a happy accident, actually. A lot of our history has been serendipity and serendipitous moments, but we when we had the food hall stall, we were secret shot by the regional marketing manager for Whole Foods in the mid-Atlantic area. And she had so I started making the biscuits frozen because one, the stall was 80 square feet and we used to be sold out sometimes early as 1030 in the morning.
00;11;09;11 - 00;11;30;14
Ayeshah
So it was such a long time to then go replenish and come back from our commercial kitchen that I was like, All right, we've got to have something to get customers, right? So we started freezing the pork and I bought like a $100 food saver machine from bed Bath and Beyond. I'm out there in a vacuum selling these things, and we had them in a little cooler because we didn't even have an outlet for a freezer.
00;11;30;14 - 00;11;44;26
Ayeshah
But she had bought a bunch of them and then a few months later she emailed. It was like my son finished them all. I absolutely have to have them. Can you bring something to headquarters? So I drove a box of samples up like one of the boxes and they like free can, you know, it's.
00;11;44;27 - 00;11;45;12
Speaker 3
Not that.
00;11;45;25 - 00;11;50;16
Ayeshah
Not the cutest presentation because I didn't know what she wanted them for. I thought she deserved more for her and her son.
00;11;50;16 - 00;11;51;13
Djenaba
Right, right, right, right.
00;11;52;12 - 00;12;12;14
Ayeshah
And she started grabbing it and she's like, merchandizing. And I'm like, What are you doing? And she's like, Well, I want these for the stores. And I was like, Oh my God. Well, give me some time to figure this out. And so in 2015, the day before Thanksgiving, we launched in our first Wholefoods store, and that day we sold out and we outsold butter and milk sales.
00;12;13;07 - 00;12;39;27
Ayeshah
So that went viral through the whole food ecosystem. And, you know, basically for the next five years, we were figuring out what is the future of the Frozen brand. At first it was like, Oh, this is a great advertisement for the restaurant locally, so we should put something on the back of the bus about the restaurant and then people well, you know, but then it ended up that I brought on it my business partner Ross, and he was like, Hey, you know, this is doing really well.
00;12;39;27 - 00;13;05;15
Ayeshah
We should really see if this is worth our distraction or if we should just focus on the restaurant. Right. Let's go south and see if the Southerners will buy it. So we he cold called Publix and Kroger. We got meetings to both and this was 2000 1718 and we walked away with both the chain. So we went from like a couple of hundred stores to over 2000 and we did really well.
00;13;05;15 - 00;13;18;10
Ayeshah
And so that breakpoint was like what really got us to think, okay, there's that there is a frozen food business here. Let's, let's look at that. And mind you, up, up until we got Publix and Kroger, we were making these biscuits in the back of the drive thru.
00;13;18;18 - 00;13;24;22
Djenaba
That's what I was going to ask you. Like, how did you how were you able to scale up so that you could serve the Publix and Kroger business?
00;13;24;25 - 00;13;46;02
Ayeshah
Yeah. So back then will, I will caveat that because when we started it was still the wild, wild west when it came to products, right? There wasn't a lot of regulation. There wasn't a lot of, you know, structure around how to get started. And so you kind of do it and you beg for forgiveness later. But, you know, we did all the things we're supposed to do from a DC health standpoint, right?
00;13;46;02 - 00;14;01;12
Ayeshah
We had our health certificate, we had a has the plan. We did all the things you're supposed to do. And we also had a giant frozen river out in the parking lot. So, you know, you can deliver it. You know, it's what you do. And so, you know, that's the entrepreneurial spirit, though, right? You do whatever it takes.
00;14;01;13 - 00;14;22;22
Ayeshah
It's the drive. It's like, do it now. Give me a ticket. I'll do it. I'll pay it later. Right. It's like you just you just do whatever it takes. And then only until we got Publix and Kroger that it hit, that we would not be able to keep making these out of the back of the tractor. So that's when we found a co manufacturer to start our first automated production.
00;14;22;22 - 00;14;36;06
Ayeshah
But but even then, right, like we realized very quickly, we broke like seven Buttercup orders. Like, people don't realize how hard biscuits are to make. There's a reason why Pillsbury sucks, right? Like all these biscuits are the same.
00;14;36;29 - 00;14;37;26
Djenaba
In a can.
00;14;38;00 - 00;14;48;05
Ayeshah
And it can't. Yeah, because you know what the worst part about it is? The world makes food easier for machines than it is for us to digest. How sad is that?
00;14;48;14 - 00;14;52;25
Djenaba
That is so sad. Wow. I never even thought about it that way. I never thought of it that way.
00;14;52;25 - 00;15;16;08
Ayeshah
That's why those biscuits are made with palm oil instead of butter. That's why they have that thousand other stable sizes in them because it'll pop through those machines really easily versus ours. And you make it the real way with all seven ingredients and fresh dairy and hard frozen butter, you're going to break stuff, right? And so, you know, at first, you know, everyone would love the taste and they were hating, making it right.
00;15;16;08 - 00;15;37;12
Ayeshah
They were like, you know, this is not scalable. And we're like, no, it is. You just we got to think outside the box here. It's not going to work on an oil baseline, right? Like we got to change the game. And I'm glad we did it, though, because once we had that manufacturing scale, 2019 heads were riding the way we were growing like 300% a year.
00;15;37;22 - 00;16;01;17
Ayeshah
Then COVID hit and then the frozen food world just exploded because everyone was going there. Right. And then they were discovering brands like us. So like, wow, frozen can be healthier while Frozen can be natural. So we had like a 400% growth spurt that year. Meanwhile, you know, we're watching our poor restaurants struggle, right? I mean, it was really sad to watch that decline and it was such a part of our heritage and history.
00;16;01;17 - 00;16;31;14
Ayeshah
It was it was a hard go, right. But in many ways, I think we always think about it as especially now because we've launched into Marriott, into food service, we think about it as that was our launchpad to impacting restaurants and hospitality in a much bigger way now, right? I mean, we're in over 4000 Marriott now. We only had three hosts, you know, restaurants at that point, like filling up 44,000 restaurants will be a lot harder, right.
00;16;31;14 - 00;16;46;22
Ayeshah
So and hey, these these folks want good food, right there. And everyone in the food service world is desperate for it. So it was, again, another serendipitous move. But but yeah, that's kind of how COVID really influenced us that year.
00;16;47;21 - 00;17;09;22
Djenaba
That's great. So with that, with all the growth, I'm sure you had to grow your staff as well. I'm wondering just can you talk a little about creating culture? So we talked in the beginning about, you know, being a woman of color in corporate. I know that very well. I was actually talking to one of my colleagues about it earlier and it was hard because you are you're great at your job.
00;17;09;22 - 00;17;32;07
Djenaba
But like I think corporate in general comes with people, want you to be a certain way, you dress a certain way, you act a certain way, you are a certain way. And that might necessarily be who you are completely. So you're constantly code switching. And I just remember coming home and just being so tired at the end of the day because, you know, you, you know, in addition to working, you had to put on a show for lack of a better term.
00;17;32;16 - 00;17;51;12
Djenaba
So it's not about creating culture like within the company that you want. Cause I know for me I'm like, Oh, it finally dawned on me. I can do whatever I want in my own company. I can hire who I want, I can wear who I want, wear what I want, whatever, yeah. Talk a little bit about that, especially with creating culture and then growing the business and quickly.
00;17;51;25 - 00;18;15;11
Ayeshah
Yeah. So I think, you know, ironically an idea to bring it up on the code switching and what's also really wild is the number of it, you know, the caricature of an Uncle Tom, the number of those types of characters, regardless of race that have been cultivated because of corporate culture is also it's not talked about. I had a really volatile boss who was Asian, who and I have naturally curly hair.
00;18;15;11 - 00;18;31;13
Ayeshah
This is just straight. And because it was going to be a hot mess of me not being able to wash it for it. So but, but I had naturally curly hair and I showed up to my first meeting in Germany and it and I didn't have a hairdo. I didn't realize it was a different outlet and my dryer wouldn't work with connector, so I couldn't dry it.
00;18;31;13 - 00;18;41;15
Ayeshah
So I'm like, you know, you the crappy dryer at the at the hotel and I walk out with curly hair and he goes, whoa. And I'm like, yes. And he's just like, you look a bit Aborigine.
00;18;42;15 - 00;18;43;08
Djenaba
Wow.
00;18;43;08 - 00;18;50;16
Ayeshah
And I was like, is that a bad thing? And he was like, well, it just doesn't look as professional, so if you can tie it up or something. And I was.
00;18;50;16 - 00;18;56;20
Speaker 3
Like, then I was like, You're not even a white man.
00;18;56;21 - 00;19;27;11
Ayeshah
Like, I was. I was that was where I was like, Wow, yeah. State of the world. And what people have cultivated from a professionalism standpoint, from a perceived success standpoint. I that was that was one of those pivotal moments, right, that I vowed when I started the business. Never, never was that going to happen. Right. And so my, my first business so the first hire was my business partner, Rob, and he is an openly gay man.
00;19;28;03 - 00;19;53;09
Ayeshah
And as we really talked about why we clicked, right? I mean, there's this huge thing about and he came from corporate to like he was in the Big Five consulting world for years. And and we realized that our identities were questioned all the time, right? Yeah. Even though he is a white man as a gay white man, he is now subhuman and not of the same ranks.
00;19;53;09 - 00;20;16;00
Ayeshah
And similarly, right. I women tend to have a different class, right. And it's like layers. But regardless, we had so many shared experiences. So, so I think organically just because we were both different and we were both ostracized, we made a commitment to never have that environment. And here's the thing. When you put out in the world what you are, you get back what you are, right?
00;20;16;07 - 00;20;38;18
Ayeshah
So never were we like we must always be sensitive. These are the ground rules, right? Like now it's just like you just attract people that are like you. So we attract a lot of women. We attract a lot of people of color. We attract a lot of gays, right? Like because that's who we are. Right? People see themselves in the leadership and the foundational teams and I'm really proud of that.
00;20;38;18 - 00;21;00;21
Ayeshah
And like one of the most jarring moments that, like Ross and I went through actually was so I actually went outside of the consumer products world to hire a lot of that being because Ross and I are very corporately trained, there's a lot of great knowledge and baseline skills that you get out of being brought up in an environment like that.
00;21;00;24 - 00;21;20;00
Ayeshah
Right, very true. And obviously scaling so quickly, right. 300% a year. We needed people that knew systems that knew how to fall in line when you had to to get to the next base. Right. So we hired a woman who came from automotive as well. I knew her from my automotive days and she's a black woman and she is a single mom.
00;21;20;13 - 00;21;35;13
Ayeshah
I didn't even know she had kids and I work there. And she admitted to Ross and I one day she was like, Look, my schedule is a little crazy. I don't like talking about my personal life, but my son is really good at basketball and I want to be supportive of him. And we were like, Great, you know, why are you telling us this?
00;21;35;26 - 00;21;57;18
Ayeshah
And she didn't mention anything. But then like a couple days go by and she just sent a random note to say, you know, it took a lot for her to open up about her personal life because even when she was in automotive, she had her pregnancies. She never let on that she was a single mom. She never let anyone know she had children because she didn't want to be judged and taken down and hurt.
00;21;57;18 - 00;22;02;11
Ayeshah
And I was just like, how on earth.
00;22;03;06 - 00;22;03;13
Djenaba
Yep.
00;22;03;21 - 00;22;19;13
Ayeshah
This happened to somebody that they they literally go through life thinking that's what they have to do to climb. And Ross and I were like, flabbergasted, but at the same time, like, really touched that she felt open enough to say, I'm proud of being a mom. I'm proud of my kids. I'm going to make time for my kids.
00;22;20;03 - 00;22;21;22
Ayeshah
Yeah, you should.
00;22;22;03 - 00;22;22;14
Speaker 3
Right?
00;22;22;17 - 00;22;44;04
Ayeshah
Like so you don't realize what is safe. And, you know, corporate culture likes to use that term, safe environments and all that stuff. And I'm like, you can't use a breastfeeding room as a safe environment. Like you have to create a culture of safety. You have to make it okay for people to be themselves, talk about themselves, go through it, right?
00;22;44;21 - 00;23;04;27
Ayeshah
That's true. You do. And I think that's really been one of the biggest success tactics in recruiting and all the talent that we have and why it is so diverse. It's not it's not like to go out there going, Oh, I only hire brown people. Right? I love it. But it's not what I it's not what happens. It's just that folks come out of the woodwork and people were like, Oh, there's a pipeline issue, all this stuff.
00;23;04;27 - 00;23;23;00
Ayeshah
And I'm like, Really? Because I haven't had a hard time at all. Clearly, they don't want to work for you, right? Like and that's that's the dichotomy that's still a mess right now is like, well, we're like fine people of color, we're fine gay people. And like, you create an environment that makes them want to come to you.
00;23;23;13 - 00;23;40;10
Ayeshah
Right. So I'm very proud of that. And I think a lot of our success, I don't think I know I know a lot of our success is due to the fact that we do have such a diverse team of people, that these are all hustlers that want their time to shine. These are all winners because that's all they want to do, is only want to prove to the world they want to stand for something.
00;23;40;19 - 00;23;52;18
Ayeshah
They want to be a part of something openly, right, organically and at the end of the day, they want to feel seen and that if that's the only thing I can do, then I feel like I've done my job.
00;23;53;02 - 00;24;13;04
Djenaba
No, I mean, you're your colleague that you hired. Like, I completely relate to her. Like, people didn't know that I had. Some people did. Like people didn't know I had children that someone walk up to me. They had no idea you had children. They knew I was married. They didn't know that. But then it you don't share a lot of your personal life because you don't know how you're going to be perceived.
00;24;13;10 - 00;24;30;12
Djenaba
Yep. So you just keep it like I was. I when I worked, I had nothing was on my desk that there was no pictures of anything. Like I had the whole like, okay, if I have to leave, I can just put it on the bag and like walk out the door situation. That's crazy. Yeah, that's the way that I kind of thought about work.
00;24;31;02 - 00;24;45;06
Ayeshah
And I think even though I'm not a mother and I didn't have to do those tough things, I still had the same pack your desk up mentality because I was like, I'm not leaving anything here for people to be snooping around. They're like, If I want to leave, I'm going.
00;24;45;06 - 00;24;47;09
Speaker 3
To just move and I'm going to.
00;24;47;09 - 00;25;08;10
Ayeshah
Go, right. Because you couldn't you can't cultivate loyalty in a place you don't feel welcome, right? Like, how do you you can't get comfortable if you never move in, right? So it's one of those things I think, that especially women of color, that we're all conditioned to think like nothing is stable, nothing is safe. Right. And I always tell people, like, I even make it a joke that I'm a cancer.
00;25;08;10 - 00;25;24;25
Ayeshah
I carry my home on my back. But I don't think it's just the cancer part. Right. I think it's this preconceived training that we have as women of color to just always be listening for the twig snaps and in the dark. Right. And you're just like, get out of here. Right? We just run.
00;25;24;25 - 00;25;39;03
Djenaba
Yeah, it's true. I even have. I never admitted this, but I even have a folder at home that has like all the expense reports in it. So if I ever had to, like when I left the company had to prove that I actually had, you know, this is my thing. I have it right here. That's ridiculous. Like, I still.
00;25;39;03 - 00;25;44;11
Djenaba
Yeah. Did all the back up and all the receipts just in case there was a problem.
00;25;44;19 - 00;25;58;16
Ayeshah
I have a whole. You know, it's really weird that you say that. I don't even think about that. I have a whole, you know, ugly bags that, like, they're like a little backpack on wheels. Yep. Mm hmm. And my mom gave me one a long time ago in college. I never use it because I was this embarrassing to be looking around that thing.
00;25;58;25 - 00;26;13;26
Ayeshah
But, you know, it's full of expense reports printed like plans that I did at work. Like any documentation of any work I did is in that role one that's really crazy. I don't even think about that. Yeah.
00;26;13;26 - 00;26;14;08
Djenaba
Anyway.
00;26;15;01 - 00;26;15;24
Speaker 3
I know the things you.
00;26;15;24 - 00;26;20;02
Ayeshah
Have to do to be physically accountable. Yes. White dudes just roll out this.
00;26;20;02 - 00;26;28;07
Djenaba
Roll out, you know. So I asked this question to everyone. What do you miss about corporate? Is there anything that you miss about it?
00;26;28;25 - 00;26;45;26
Ayeshah
I think we actually talked about this a couple of weeks ago, you know, like when you got to ignore it because you're like an expense authorization. What? And then I got to get approval a lot. And then I'm like, you know, like, why this is such a waste of my time right now, what I'm going to spend. And and now I'm like, you know what?
00;26;45;26 - 00;26;47;29
Ayeshah
We need expense authorization.
00;26;49;17 - 00;26;50;09
Speaker 3
You know what we need.
00;26;50;13 - 00;26;54;12
Djenaba
Somebody better justify why they need that. Yeah.
00;26;54;12 - 00;26;56;15
Speaker 3
All the little mechanical.
00;26;56;17 - 00;27;15;22
Ayeshah
Systems that you take for granted. Yeah. They're so critical when you're. When you're thinking about it as an entrepreneur now you're like, man, what I would give to have, concur, have a small business plan, right? Like what i would give to have it be like h.r. System on board, right? Like those are the things where it's, it's so hard.
00;27;15;22 - 00;27;42;19
Ayeshah
There's, you know, huge opportunity alert, alert for any entrepreneurs listening, huge opportunity for small to midsize business, back office scaling seems like true just nothing functional out there so that that I do miss and then you know I think you you take a you take for granted teams right the dynamic of having teams and having people that have been desk jockeys for 13 years, people that have been there for 13 days.
00;27;42;19 - 00;27;43;17
Djenaba
Right.
00;27;43;17 - 00;27;57;15
Ayeshah
You you forget that you need the legacy people to help make it easier as you scale. And so I miss that sometimes. I like I mentioned, I had to turn around and be like, Tasso, Tasso, what do we do left time for that thing, right?
00;27;58;10 - 00;28;00;10
Speaker 3
You can't do that. Right, right, right.
00;28;01;19 - 00;28;12;05
Ayeshah
You know, you're just every day is as a solution, building time as a problem solving time. So the stability of corporate sometimes seems nice. But then I think about all the other stuff going on right now.
00;28;12;11 - 00;28;23;14
Djenaba
And it's not worth it. No. Yeah. So talk a little bit about it, like a lesson that you from lessons that you've learned over the past couple of years as you've been scaling your business.
00;28;24;25 - 00;28;47;06
Ayeshah
Oh, I think one of the most foundational things, you know, as you as you scale, you're always skeptical of advice or always skeptical of like, what is that? When when does it get easier? Right. Like, and I remember in consumer products, many people, investors or advisors, everyone says there's this magical number and it's perfectly $10 million. That's it.
00;28;47;16 - 00;28;51;12
Ayeshah
That's the perfect time. And you're like, Did you just pull that out of your budget like way?
00;28;51;19 - 00;28;52;01
Speaker 3
How do you.
00;28;52;01 - 00;29;08;24
Ayeshah
Know that's a number right? I'm right. Like it was pretty nuts. Like, that's this weird time where you are. It's almost like you're you're like, I always make this analogy. Can you remember in Pinocchio when he, like, starts to walk, he's like, I'm a real boy.
00;29;08;24 - 00;29;09;17
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like.
00;29;09;28 - 00;29;21;08
Ayeshah
It's the same moment where you're like, Oh, oh, we actually have our sea legs now. And people are actually hold us accountable and you know, we're becoming something, but you don't really feel it.
00;29;21;22 - 00;29;22;06
Speaker 3
You know, it's.
00;29;22;06 - 00;29;43;29
Ayeshah
Still hard and it's right. The problems are just bigger, right? Scale wise, they're bigger. The same problems that a million is there and ten and plus but it's it's it's the lesson of not not getting too inside of your head to like overcomplicate that there's this magical break point that you get to where it just gets easier. It doesn't.
00;29;44;07 - 00;29;44;19
Djenaba
It doesn't.
00;29;44;29 - 00;30;04;02
Ayeshah
It's new problems. Right. And and you got to be prepared. And and you're you've been doing this Windows eight years. When you're weathered. There's no excuse not to anticipate the next challenging thing. Right? Like it's getting better at being predictive about it versus we fix it. It'll never happen again. Right? Right. It's gonna happen again.
00;30;04;09 - 00;30;18;02
Djenaba
So I don't know. I think that, like, every time something happens, I'm like, okay, I got, I got through that. Like, I'm done, right? And then like, this other thing comes and I'm honestly like just now getting used to the fact that there's always going to be something that's happening along the way.
00;30;18;10 - 00;30;38;23
Ayeshah
That's right. So it's it's conditioned in us, right. Because as you know, even from where we're kids. Right. You're taught once you learn it, that chapter's over, you go to the next one, right? So you never have to relearn it, but it's the complete opposite. And building a business, right? There is no legacy. Anything ever, if you're growing every year is a new growth trajectory.
00;30;38;23 - 00;30;48;27
Ayeshah
It's a new challenge. Right. I also think the other big lesson learned is there was a big fancy term in corporate write change management.
00;30;49;09 - 00;30;53;00
Speaker 3
And I'll never forget we had I had.
00;30;53;00 - 00;31;06;12
Ayeshah
This really awesome manager and I ended up bringing him as a consultant when I moved to Saudi. And but he he gave me a book before I left the consulting world, but it was literally called Change Management Theory. And I was like, Can't wait to.
00;31;06;12 - 00;31;14;12
Speaker 3
Read this thing, you know, so excited, literally. And, and I'm reading that like, it don't mean like I don't understand any of it.
00;31;15;08 - 00;31;35;28
Ayeshah
And now when I think about it, I'm like, Damn, damn, he must have really saw something in me and thought, she's going to make some changes happen, so she's going to need to read up on this. And only now. Granted, it did not happen when I was there. Maybe it's that a little bit when I was still in corporate, but only now as an entrepreneur where I look back at that really.
00;31;36;00 - 00;31;42;07
Ayeshah
I mean, it's one of those books where I had like, you know, just change management theory and it's got like a, like a like a triangle and a.
00;31;42;07 - 00;31;47;12
Speaker 3
Circle, not a square, anything like that. Not anything exciting, right? But I look at.
00;31;47;12 - 00;32;08;29
Ayeshah
That book and I go, Wow, like, all this makes a lot of sense. Now, the hardest part about change and or not even Chase are growth. And business development is change management, right? Like bringing your people through all these hardships and getting them up the peak and getting them up to the next level. It's a drag at times, right?
00;32;08;29 - 00;32;16;13
Ayeshah
Because every time people want to just rest for a second and say, Yeah, we got to the top of that peak because they're, you know, you're like, nah, nah, nah.
00;32;16;13 - 00;32;20;12
Speaker 3
Nah, we got to keep going, you know? And that ability to, like, go right and it's like.
00;32;20;18 - 00;32;40;09
Ayeshah
You know, I'm tired, you know, and it's like, we've got to keep going, right? And it's it's very hard. But I think the more agile you can become to changes, the more that you can be responsive to them. That's why we've been growing the way we have, right? Yeah. No resting on laurels, no second guessing. Should we be here?
00;32;40;09 - 00;32;50;27
Ayeshah
Not just keep going. If it was a problem, pivot right? Like right. And that's that I think has also been a very I think it's a byproduct probably of the last two and a half years post COVID.
00;32;51;04 - 00;32;53;00
Djenaba
Yeah.
00;32;53;00 - 00;33;00;02
Ayeshah
And then I think it's a new muscle that we're all having to train in our brains. Right. Like the while the shifts about to happen at any point.
00;33;01;03 - 00;33;01;22
Speaker 3
You know, thought.
00;33;01;22 - 00;33;03;13
Djenaba
The world would completely shut down.
00;33;03;14 - 00;33;03;29
Ayeshah
No.
00;33;03;29 - 00;33;05;01
Djenaba
Who would have thought that?
00;33;05;01 - 00;33;07;22
Speaker 3
And now? Not for two years. I mean, not for two years.
00;33;07;23 - 00;33;12;11
Ayeshah
Like two weeks off. I know that was wild, right?
00;33;12;11 - 00;33;13;18
Djenaba
Crazy, crazy, crazy.
00;33;13;18 - 00;33;14;13
Ayeshah
Yeah. But yeah.
00;33;15;06 - 00;33;22;14
Djenaba
So what advice would you give to someone that's looking to quit their corporate job to start a food business?
00;33;22;14 - 00;33;43;08
Ayeshah
So I'd say it is a very different world now than when I did the same, but I also don't really get the chance to talk about it a lot. I still work a full time job for four years on top of being an entrepreneur, right? Like don't don't sacrifice everything unless you have every box checked the other financial wherewithal.
00;33;43;08 - 00;34;00;20
Ayeshah
You have the cash in the bank, you have the support network, you have marketing, you've a business plan. If you have all that stuff buttoned up and you feel is a you can jump off that ship and just run by all means. But be careful because I've seen this be the tragic end to a lot of entrepreneurs. Right.
00;34;00;20 - 00;34;20;20
Ayeshah
Is is quitting everything, trying to survive on zero, right. And trying to hustle growth. You can't do all three there. There are sacrifices. Do I think the business would have been growing faster had I been able to devote 100% of myself earlier? Absolutely. But also at the same time, would it have gotten to where it was if I didn't have the money now?
00;34;20;28 - 00;34;35;28
Ayeshah
Right. So it's six one half dozen in the other. So I think plan, plan, plan, you know, create those foundations and and then launch yourself. I think it's worth the risk if you have a passion. There's nothing like working for yourself right there.
00;34;35;29 - 00;34;36;21
Djenaba
It's the best.
00;34;36;24 - 00;34;54;09
Ayeshah
It's the best. As long as you believe in yourself, because that's the thing. That's the only person that's going to hold you accountable. Right? You don't have a boss now. You don't have it telling you how to do it. It's you. You got to have full confidence in you, which, you know, again, it's a lot of what I see in early stage entrepreneurs.
00;34;54;09 - 00;35;00;28
Ayeshah
There's a lot of self doubt, especially. So I don't know if you know this, but I'm also a co-founder of a group called Project Potluck.
00;35;01;04 - 00;35;05;11
Djenaba
Oh, yes. And I'm a member of Project So.
00;35;05;19 - 00;35;24;24
Ayeshah
So when we started that, the whole effort was because, you know, between Ibrahim, our new partner, we were getting a lot of, you know, please help emails, right and right. You talk to these folks and you get a lot of them that are just especially people of color, right? Because there's no guidance, there is no help. There's a thousand other barriers beyond just the normal barriers.
00;35;24;24 - 00;35;28;17
Ayeshah
Right. And a lot of it was like the number one thing I would tell people was like.
00;35;28;17 - 00;35;31;07
Speaker 3
Say, I'm just coming over here. Like.
00;35;33;01 - 00;35;51;20
Ayeshah
I'm I've never done this. I'm scared to make a mistake. No, like you're here already. Say it with you just right. Right. And that's the that that I think is the biggest piece of advice I could say is like, if you're going to set on the journey, it's just realize it is a journey. It is not a sprint, right?
00;35;51;21 - 00;36;01;02
Ayeshah
No. Your goals. Right. And just believe in yourself. You have to be confident and execute and that's when things happen.
00;36;01;15 - 00;36;13;22
Djenaba
It's so true. It's like you just to make a decision about what you what's inside sitting in front of you like you don't know anything else, right? So, you know, you have this set of factors in front of you, not just make the decision. It's not wrong. You may have to make a change, but it's not wrong.
00;36;14;04 - 00;36;33;08
Ayeshah
But you think about it, especially for people of color, right? Like we've been conditioned to think risk taking is bad because you're right. Because you're like your family, your family's family. You're your great, great grandma. They're all saying stability is a good thing. Don't rock the boat. Don't jump off this ship. And we work so hard to build it for you.
00;36;33;08 - 00;36;55;06
Ayeshah
So you carry all this legacy with you like, oh, man, I'm going to do right by my parents, my grandparents, all this stuff, and you end up not taking the risks that are better for you or I was I was I was on TikTok about a month and a half ago, and I saw somebody reposted a video and it was like a group chat of black women talking about lessons learned.
00;36;55;06 - 00;37;05;23
Ayeshah
And one of the women said, I wish that I just I would have decided earlier not to live my life for my mom. And it hit me like a brick.
00;37;06;06 - 00;37;06;15
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00;37;06;24 - 00;37;14;00
Ayeshah
Because you think about that. It's not just black women. It's most people of color, right? You are living your life. But I'm the oldest. I don't know about you.
00;37;14;16 - 00;37;15;05
Djenaba
But I do.
00;37;15;11 - 00;37;41;05
Ayeshah
Yeah. You carry all the things your parents didn't accomplish forward. First until you realize you also have a life to live. And the more you can be selfish about your destiny, the more you give back to them versus trying to carry out their destiny for them, you know? And that was such a heavy, heavy comment because it if you didn't catch what the conversation was, it could have come off as a selfish right.
00;37;41;05 - 00;37;45;06
Ayeshah
But, you know, I just felt like she was talking straight into my soul.
00;37;45;06 - 00;37;48;27
Speaker 3
I was like, wow, all right. You're like.
00;37;49;06 - 00;38;07;01
Ayeshah
That. That is a powerful statement. It's a lot to shake off. So I think, you know, our generation, especially of women of color, have to get outside of their mom complex. Right. Like we're we're trying to save our moms, right? We're trying to save their life and all the things they sacrificed for us. I'm always going to be grateful, of course.
00;38;07;01 - 00;38;27;17
Ayeshah
But but even my story. Right. I jumped off that corporate train that, you know, university track train to do this. And and I'm glad because I'm the one that's going to be paying for retirement. But I'm two younger sisters. I help raise them. They both have kids. This band, they they're in debt until they're 59 years old, honey.
00;38;28;04 - 00;38;29;08
Speaker 3
So, like.
00;38;30;04 - 00;38;46;21
Ayeshah
I'm the one that's not that. I'm the one that I'm going to make enough cash to be able to support my mom who has no retirement. Right. And I wish I'd realized that earlier because things would have been different. Right. So, you know, that was just another random thought I had.
00;38;46;21 - 00;39;07;04
Djenaba
But I think that, you know, it makes total sense. So talk a little bit about what you do for fun or to relax just because I, like most business owners, like you're thinking about your business constantly, even though you have employees and help, you're still thinking about it. So like, how do you step out of the CEO role and just kind of take a break and relax?
00;39;07;04 - 00;39;07;21
Djenaba
What do you do?
00;39;08;09 - 00;39;35;01
Ayeshah
So I really value space separation. So I don't like working from home because I need a sanctuary, right? Like I tell my fiancee, we had this rule since day one when you moved in my apartment. You check work at that doormat when that door closed. There is no work like it has. Unless, obviously some emergency. I, I try not I try to leave all work things in the office, like I try to separate my space.
00;39;35;01 - 00;39;57;01
Ayeshah
Otherwise, to your point, you live in it nonstop. You can't escape and it will start to really get on you like Cobra was a really hard time for me because there was no separation and I've never not been a confident person. I've never not been a person who could never be fazed and I could feel myself just the energy, like getting zapped out of me.
00;39;57;01 - 00;40;22;02
Ayeshah
So I think separation of space is important. I also really value physical movement. Like, you've got to get up out of your chair, you've got to get outside. We even have at the company we we at headquarters, we'll just pick an hour. We'll just whoever can do it, we just throw it on everyone's calendar and we just walk around the Inner Harbor for an hour just because I'm like, if we don't, you just don't, right?
00;40;22;03 - 00;40;43;12
Ayeshah
You just sit there. And so that that time, I have the best creative thoughts. I remember stuff that I did not write down. I have a lot of clarity. So I do try to get outside. I do try to like separate myself from my body somehow at least once a day. I think that's very important.
00;40;44;08 - 00;41;01;08
Djenaba
That's great. So we have what we call the money ballot, Hudson Kitchen, and we ring the bell when people get new clients, you know, take on new customers, things like that. Some employees are getting when they get their paychecks. But I want to talk about what are you celebrating right now? It could be both personal and or professional.
00;41;01;29 - 00;41;06;18
Ayeshah
Well, I'd say we had a really great cause. It's fresh that you're hot, you see fresh.
00;41;06;18 - 00;41;08;09
Speaker 3
NASIR I got on.
00;41;10;13 - 00;41;23;14
Ayeshah
In this this coming spring, we're launching our new waffle innovation. So it's always waffle, and it's been approved a Whole Foods. So we're launching Liege Waffles and we're also launching a chicken waffle sandwich.
00;41;23;29 - 00;41;25;00
Djenaba
Yeah, amazing.
00;41;25;13 - 00;41;26;06
Ayeshah
Very thing.
00;41;26;17 - 00;41;27;22
Djenaba
So congratulations.
00;41;27;22 - 00;41;33;21
Ayeshah
Thank you. You. We rang that bell on Thursday, so bringing it here, so very exciting.
00;41;34;14 - 00;41;43;03
Djenaba
Yeah, that's great. So thank you so much for being here. I truly appreciate it. Please let our listeners know where they can find out about you and also about Mason Dixie Foods.
00;41;43;20 - 00;42;01;25
Ayeshah
Yeah. So you can follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter at Mason Dixie Foods, our websites basically boots.com. And you can find me on LinkedIn. It's think it's AJ, AB, UCL. HIPAA is the last part. I had to find a new little tagline, but then at the same time I might not have my name.
00;42;01;25 - 00;42;03;06
Djenaba
So that's it, right?
00;42;03;12 - 00;42;12;27
Ayeshah
Yeah, exactly. That just winked at me and happy to help it. If you are a person of color in this industry, please join project potluck it's potluck cpg dot org.
00;42;13;16 - 00;42;32;20
Djenaba
Awesome. Thank you so much for being here. The Food Means Business Podcast is produced Hudson Kitchen. It's recorded and edited at the studio at Carney Point. Our theme song is by Damien de Sandys and I'm your host, Jennifer Johnson Jones. Find out more about Hudson Kitchen by visiting the Hudson Kitchen dot com or follow us on Instagram at the Hudson Kitchen.
00;42;33;05 - 00;42;39;11
Djenaba
Listen below and leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Until next time.
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