Mixing Family and Business: How Poppa’s Custard Built Their Business on a Solid Foundation with Josh Johnson
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At the beginning of his career, Josh Johnson didn’t plan on starting a CPG company with his wife and sister, but now that he’s here, he wouldn’t have it any other way. While business and family might be a volatile mix for some, but when it comes to the Poppa’s Custard Company, that’s part of the magic.
In this episode, Josh Johnson joins me to share how he planned out his transition from corporate to a custard company, how he’s created a business with the people he loves most, how they structured the company to play to each family member’s strengths, and what the sales strategy looks like for a specialized product like chilled custard.
Subscribe to the Food Means Business Podcast with Hudson Kitchen founder Djenaba Johnson-Jones to hear the personal stories and “secret ingredients” of abandoning your day job and starting a CPG food business.
In this episode, you’ll learn...
[00:53] How Josh transitioned from consulting to custard
[05:26] How Josh prepared to take the leap before quitting his corporate job
[11:14] As a family business, how Josh balances the “family” vs the “business” part of his relationships with his wife and sister
[18:16] Why the Poppa’s Custard company chose and designed their product
[21:24] What the sales strategy looks like for a speciality product like Poppa’s Custard
[24:51] Josh’s best advice from someone just starting out
[27:56] How Josh takes care of himself outside of his family business
If you’ve wondered how a successful family business runs, this is one conversation you can’t miss!
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About Josh Johnson
Josh Johnson is the Co-Founder and CEO of Poppa’s Custard Company, a Philadelphia based, Black-, family-, & women-owned packaged food business. Josh has extensive practical experience and academic training in general management, business strategy, and business operations. He earned Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees in Industrial & Operations Engineering from the University of Michigan College of Engineering and an MBA from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania.
Josh began his professional career first with Indiana based engine manufacturer Cummins inc. as a manufacturing operations improvement resource. He then spent nearly a decade with global consulting firm McKinsey & Company, retiring as an Associate Partner to launch Poppa’s Custard alongside his wife Christen Johnson, and his sister, Chef Jewel Johnson.
As CEO Josh has driven the establishment, growth, and management of business operations for Poppa’s Custard since its founding in their kitchen in 2020 to a growing local brand business with national aspirations. Outside of Poppa’s Custard, Josh leads the worship team at his local church and enjoys spending time at home with his wife and Co-Founder Christen, and their three children.
Connect with Josh Johnson:
Visit the Poppa's Custard Company website
Follow Poppa's Custard Company on Instagram
Stay Connected with Djenaba Johnson-Jones:
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[00:00:00] Djenaba: You are listening to the Food Means Business podcast, which features the personal stories and secret ingredients behind what it's like to abandon your day job to start a CPG food and beverage business. I'm Djenaba Johnson Jones, former marketing executive turned entrepreneur and founder of food business incubator Hudson Kitchen.
[00:00:20] Join our community of fellow food business owners and subject matter experts. First to learn and laugh with us as we explore a startup world. That's a little more culinary and a lot less corporate these days. All right, Josh, welcome to the food means business podcast. I'm so happy you're here.
[00:00:34] Joshua: Thank you so much.
[00:00:35] I am, I'm thrilled to be able to have this conversation with you.
[00:00:39] Djenaba: Amazing. So let's start with you. Give us a little bit of information about why you decided to leave a career in management consulting in open a. A custard business, I would love to just kind of hear about your trajectory.
[00:00:51] Joshua: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:00:52] So, uh, Papa's Custard Company is a label of love. It is a reflection of our family values, our attempt to [00:01:00] simplify and heal and share with our family after some losses in our family during pandemic. So my sister and I lost our aunt at the very beginning of the pandemic, like right at the lockdown. So much so that like.
[00:01:13] We got, you know, a picture message of her in a casket and that's it. And so we took a moment and up to that point had been, you know, kind of tossing back and forth ideas on ways to just spend more time together. Cause we all had, you know, very successful, but completely separate lanes. My sister is a very talented pastry chef.
[00:01:34] So her name is chef Jewel Johnson. She is the head of pastry at dirty French, New York and the Ludlow hotel on the lower East side. She's been featured on Food Network, I think, six or seven times. Most recently, this year, she beat Bobby Flay on Beat Bobby Flay. You know, she's contributed to magazines, all types of stuff.
[00:01:51] So she's very, very talented chef. I have a business background. I'm an engineer, uh, spent some time in industry, went to business school, and then was a management consultant. So we [00:02:00] had that. And my wife is a career educator and has been either in classrooms or in youth service, youth serving or youth focused community based organizations for her entire career.
[00:02:10] And so when we were faced with this kind of tragedy, you know, we thought, let's just take something that we can do really, really well. That's also remarkably simple, simple doesn't mean easy, but simple. And just share it. With as many people as possible. And so we landed on custard or like the patient, which is effectively a pastry cream that my, my sister would use in her service in all of her restaurants.
[00:02:34] And we made sure that it was as inclusive as possible. So we don't have any of the major allergens and any of our products, no gluten, soy, peanuts or tree nuts. We don't use any artificial colors, flavors, or preservatives. And after maybe a month or two on the farmer's markets, we launched vegan custards because we would constantly run into people who were either lactose intolerant or had, you know, a vegan lifestyle.
[00:02:55] And we wanted to make sure that they were able to enjoy it too. And so, you know, [00:03:00] fast forward, maybe it was 2020 when we started 2023. So last year we had not continued to do it, grew slowly in the kind of farmer's market, do it once a week and kind of vibe. And then, you know, finally got the, the courage, uh, and the, quite frankly, the market validation that, you know, it was a thing to jump full time.
[00:03:19] And so we, I retired from my management consulting career in March of 2023, and we've been, you know, getting an order and growing and scaling and pushing forward with our business ever since.
[00:03:29] Djenaba: Wow. So let's talk about that for a second. So you quit your job. What is it? What did that enable you to do?
[00:03:34] Because obviously you were working on, it was kind of a eating the weekend type thing. What did that enable you to do and how did that push the business forward?
[00:03:39] Joshua: Oh, absolutely. So there's a very big difference just in terms of time and focus. When you have a part time business, you know, even with me, like as a person with a formal business education, you know, I had some of the things that you would just want in a business in place.
[00:03:52] So you had a separate Yeah, separate entity. We had our trademark stuff done. We had like, you know, very simple, you know, QuickBooks online [00:04:00] accounting stuff in order, but there was still plenty of things that we needed to do to like professionalize the business, right? The second thing was really focusing on rebranding and making our products shelf ready.
[00:04:11] So our previous branding and packaging just quite honestly, wasn't ready to go on a commercial shelf. And so investing the time and the effort to do that, uh, investing the time and the effort to really, as much as possible with, you know, the, the volume that we can purchase. Optimize the recipes, find co packers that could operate at a level of scale with the minimums that would be palatable for our company, you know, with a good enough headroom so that, you know, we're able to grow without needing to be in the kitchen, you know, 10 hours a week making the product and then going to sell it.
[00:04:40] And then, you know, finding a distributor locally that could take us and like enable us to scale, you know, locally. And so all of that stuff takes time. And, you know, it's a lot. Could I have done it with, with my job or with a job, a full time job and they're on the side. Sure, maybe, but it would have taken me a lot longer, you know, I would not have been [00:05:00] able to focus as much as I was able to on it.
[00:05:02] You know, it took us basically that entire year, you know, we, we signed with our current local distributor in October of that year, you know? And so, and like, you know, have been continuing to build and grow, you know, our footprint with them since then. And so, you know, it takes a long time. a non negligible amount of time for these things to kind of grow and mature and get to a point where they're fruitful.
[00:05:23] And you have to, you just gotta put in the time to get it done.
[00:05:26] Djenaba: Sure. So how did you prepare to, you know, take the leap and quit your job? I'm just curious because like I've talked to different people that just take the leap. I have one client that was like, Put together some investment portfolios or there would be some funds, you know, available there before I was kind of curious as to what your thought process was.
[00:05:42] And you're like, I'm going to actually do this thing.
[00:05:44] Joshua: Yeah. I think maybe two or three overarching principles, one, like, am I leaving for something that I think is viable? Right. And in that regard, uh, we did a lot of, you know, testing, right. And so we put a bunch of surveys together, we [00:06:00] handed out a bunch of samples.
[00:06:01] We. Checked if people thought what types of retailers that we thought people would find us. And we penciled down and repenciled and repenciled what the cost of the product was and what kind of margin we could expect with distributors and all that stuff. And came to the conclusion, yes, you know, we can, we could do this and do it profitably.
[00:06:18] Right. And then testing with people, do they actually enjoy it? Is this something that they would be able to buy, you know, and buy at a clip where, you know, we could build a sustainable business off of it. Okay. Yes. 2nd thing. Was, you know, is this something that we would need to bring in external investors on?
[00:06:35] Is this something that we can bootstrap? You know, what is our personal finance situation look like? And like, what's our runway? And, you know, just having that conversation with my wife and, you know, making sure that we are both like 100 percent locked in on like this, the level of investment that we're putting in here.
[00:06:50] And this is what that would mean for our livestock and our finances and our 401k and all of the above, our kids, all of the above. And agreeing on like What the red lines were like, we are going [00:07:00] to tap out if we have to do this, or we're going to, you know, we're going to really consider, you know, taking an alternate path or, you know, bringing on additional investors or taking on debt, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:07:08] If these kinds of things happen like on a broad scale, so that, you know, we just, we know the box that we're playing in. Right. And the third piece is. You know, making sure that and trying to find a way to have like a clear path towards like the right accounts because in food, you know, there are a billion and one, you know, makers out there, you know, there are a billion and one makers with a very similar story to ours, right?
[00:07:31] And so a lot of times it simply comes down to, do you have access to the people who are going to make the decision to, you know, use your product, buy your product, stock your product and. You know, if you don't, it becomes incredibly difficult, like incredibly difficult,
[00:07:49] Djenaba: right? So given the fact that you've, you know, kind of been in business for about four years or so, what lessons have you learned so far?
[00:07:56] Joshua: Nothing happens when you want it to happen. [00:08:00] Nothing happens when you want it to happen. I would say, you know, I had a very similar conversation with a. A kind of job upscaling organization, uh, in Philadelphia about entrepreneurship. And I told the students, they are the same thing that I'm telling you, which is like plan for things to take three times as long and be two and a half times as expensive, just simply put, you know, there's a very sexy.
[00:08:23] Kind of vision of entrepreneurship that you're just going to start this business, you know, put something on the market. And then all of a sudden, you know, your insert, the Instagram example that people see where they've got a billion followers and they're in front of whomever that everybody thinks is a celebrity, right?
[00:08:37] And that's the vast overwhelming majority of entrepreneurs are out here. Grinding like for a dollar. And so you got to go in knowing that that is the vibe and that's going to be the vibe that you're doing. And you don't, you don't go into entrepreneurship on his own purely to get rich, like you go in because you believe in what you're [00:09:00] offering, you believe it's going to make a difference.
[00:09:02] You believe that it's the best thing. On the market, you know, that you're bringing and that you're gonna, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna make a positive difference, you know, either in your customers or, or like broader, broader people's experience.
[00:09:14] Djenaba: It's definitely pretty on the outside and not so pretty on the inside.
[00:09:18] I agree. Not all the time. It's pretty awesome. Sometimes, like I said, the amplitude is pretty high, right? I do think it's awesome. I think I do wake up every day and I'm like excited to, you know, work in my business and do the thing, do those things. And even on the hard days, I wouldn't, wouldn't change a thing.
[00:09:34] Joshua: Yeah, absolutely. I tell, like, if a general kind of, you know, industry average job, I would say, is kind of like 0 percent amplitude, I'm going to get, like, engineering talk, right? Like, it's 0 percent amplitude. You got a line that's flat, right? And, uh, Entrepreneurship has massive amplitudes. Like the highs are really, really high.
[00:09:53] The lows are really, really low. And if you average it out, generally speaking, you're going to come somewhere a little bit higher than that, that [00:10:00] industry line or a little bit lower, depending upon where you are. But, you know, you gotta be like, you gotta be used to the normal, you know, course of business that you would never feel the perturbations from if you are in a big enterprise or in a general company as a nine to fiver.
[00:10:15] That stuff doesn't affect you when you're a nine to fiver, but it feels like a hurricane on a tiny little tree branch when you're out here in these streets on your own trying to make it happen.
[00:10:24] Djenaba: Absolutely. We give a course conduct through the business boot camp and one of the, in the first chapter of the book that we give, there's a graph and it chose the ups and downs of watching Nourish it.
[00:10:33] So you're like, you know, 9:00 AM I'm doing great. Today I'm not so good and they kind of go up and down and up and down. Cause I, I've definitely had those days where like something really great happened and that happened within the same hour.
[00:10:45] Joshua: Oh yeah. That's regular. That's regular. You gotta, you gotta learn to be like real, real middle of the road.
[00:10:52] It's just like, take a deep breath and the highs are never as high as they feel when you, in the moment when you get there and the lows are never [00:11:00] as lows as like your knee jerk reaction is to what they are. You have to learn to like take a beat. Take a deep breath and try to as much as possible, like objectively, dispassionately, just like say, okay, what does this actually mean versus Oh, I'm scared.
[00:11:14] Right,
[00:11:14] Djenaba: exactly. So you, so you started visiting with your wife and your sister. So like, like, I'm just curious as to like, what do you do versus when, you know, what is their role? And then what are the dynamics like?
[00:11:25] Joshua: Oh, yeah, I love it. I really, really love it. So a bit of personal context, like I had been in like a consulting role for basically my entire career before COVID hit.
[00:11:35] Like I was always traveling, you know, before I was a management consultant, I worked for a big manufacturer and I was always traveling for them to different countries and different manufacturing plants. So like I, you know, when my wife first met me, she clowned me because like, yeah, I would never have any food in my refrigerator.
[00:11:51] Like I would go to the grocery store, buy what I needed for like maybe two days, cook it, eat it done. And, you know, she comes, she came to my house one day. I was like, why is your [00:12:00] refrigerator empty? And I was like, well, cause I'm always on a flight or I'm always somewhere else. And now I'm not going to pay Kroger, you know, let the stuff go bad in their refrigerator.
[00:12:07] But like working with my family was the first time that I was at home. Right. I was home on a regular basis. It's the first time that I've really been able to build something. In a really one to one direct way that I can see impacting my family, like pulling a paycheck, obviously, but it's very different when like yesterday I did a promo for a neighborhood festival that's going on in Philly, Fishtown Fall Festival, which is awesome.
[00:12:33] If any of the listeners here in the Philly area head over there, we're going to be there this weekend. But, um, My kids see me on TV, right? My kids have seen my wife on TV. I've watched my wife win pitch competitions for our business, right? Like I've had a chance in a platform to promote and celebrate my sister in ways that like, you know, in the food service industry, as talented as chefs are, they get paid like crap and treated even worse.
[00:12:55] Right. And, you know, That would not, I would not have had the opportunities [00:13:00] to do that were it not for this business. So how is it working with my family? I think it's amazing. I absolutely love it. Why is it amazing? We spend a lot of time over communicating with each other. You know, like I, I kind of.
[00:13:13] Touched on this earlier about like, why did we make the job? But my wife and I moved together. Like we don't move independently. Like this isn't a new walking in and be like, babe, I've got a vision. This is what we do. And it was just like quitting my job. We're just starting this food business. We out here.
[00:13:26] Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We are a women owned business actually. So I am the full time employee. I am a CEO. I own a good chunk of the business, but my sister and my wife collectively own more of the business. As a matter of fact, my wife owns more of the business period than I do. So. You know, I am their employee and at the end of the day, right?
[00:13:45] Like I can have a vision. I can have an idea. I can have like a great plan for it. But like, if I can't convince them, you know, that this is where we need to go. And if they have a really, really strong opinion, no, no, no. We shouldn't do that. Then we're not doing it. Right. And like, that's it. And it's about [00:14:00] learning to be family first and the business second, right?
[00:14:04] Like you can, we can never allow whatever happens with the business, whether it's super, super, super successful, or we got to close the doors and everything in between. We can never allow what happens with the business to somehow encroach or, or take away from our family. Because if that's what's happening, then.
[00:14:20] You know, that defeats the entire purpose of why we started this in the first place.
[00:14:23] Djenaba: So, I usually ask this question at the end, but I'm curious, since we're talking about family right now, how do you separate The business from family, meaning like you're working in this thing all day and then it's dinnertime, you stop talking about it or are there, like, are there times during the day where like, we cannot talk about this business any longer?
[00:14:44] Well, I focus on something else. Like, what, how do you like separate yourself from the business? Because I, you know, as an entrepreneur, you're just kind of in thinking about it.
[00:14:52] Joshua: Well, I, I don't. In the sense that, like, I try to make it integrated in a healthy [00:15:00] way, right? Like my schedule is built around, like my responsibilities as husband and father first, and then business second, right?
[00:15:09] And as crazy as business is, I got to be home and get these kids off the school bus. So, no, I'm not going to make that meeting. And, you know, it's, it's like, like, I live a life of entrepreneurship. And so to say that I shut entrepreneurship off is kind of You know, it's not exactly accurate. Right now, do I, am I constantly talking about it and putting it, I'm doing this.
[00:15:29] And no, there's obviously times where, you know, I'm going to carve out time for dinner, make sure the kids get to bed, take kids to, you know, martial arts practice or whatever else is going on. I have, you know, community responsibilities in my church, plenty of things. Right. But like, I am an entrepreneur, right.
[00:15:44] And like the stuff that's going on in my life, like de facto impacts that. So it's much more about. Integrating these things in an effective and in a, in a successful way that like prioritizes what I prioritize. I'm husband and daddy and worship leader, [00:16:00] and then I'm business owner and all of those things kind of do this most of the time.
[00:16:05] But to say, I have to turn one off and turn one on isn't exactly how
[00:16:09] Djenaba: I remember it. Like when I first started my business and I had gotten laid off from my job, actually, I decided to just. Start something. But the best part was taking my kids to school.
[00:16:18] Joshua: Oh yeah.
[00:16:19] Djenaba: Well, like in picking, like I, we took, you know, I took them.
[00:16:21] I'm like, you know, you push them out the car. And like, I live in New Jersey and I was working in Manhattan. So like, I brought the car and get on the train and go to work back. It's this like rush, but at the same, we would just get up and you know, they would be on time for school, but I didn't have to like, I wasn't rushing to go anywhere, like I'm on my own schedule at a certain time.
[00:16:38] I'm thinking that that's kind of, it's nice to be able to say. This is what I'm doing today. Yeah, no, it's important and no one's rushing you to do X, Y, Z.
[00:16:48] Joshua: Yeah, no, I mean, my wife still has her full time job. My sister still has her full time job as the business scales. And I will drop the kids off at school.
[00:16:56] We'll take mommy to the train and so that she can take the train into [00:17:00] the city. And like, it's a, it's a ritual, right? Like I'm there to pick up the kids from the school bus. Right? Exactly. Like, My oldest daughter, a few months back, I think it was last school year for career day, went to school wearing some of our swag.
[00:17:13] Like I'm an entrepreneur and my family owns a business and I'm going to be a business owner one day. And here's what that looks like. And this is what Papa's custard is. Here's what we make. And I just wouldn't, I would not, I don't believe. In my experience, when I was there in corporate, I did not have like that level of connectivity, uh, with my kids and like their level of connectivity with what we are doing as a family.
[00:17:35] It just wasn't there.
[00:17:36] Djenaba: Yeah. I think my daughter could give a pitch about Hudson Kitchen, like
[00:17:40] Joshua: for real, for real, like
[00:17:42] Djenaba: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I dig it. My daughter,
[00:17:46] Joshua: my, my, my oldest daughter, we took a bunch of our products to our church one day. Yeah. Absolutely. Just as like a, a catering thing, they were kind enough to like order a few jars and my daughter completely unprompted walks in, my wife sets the [00:18:00] cooler on top of the table and she just jumps up, puts on an apron, puts on a hat and she's like, she's like eight and she's like, this is Papa's custard and this is, this is this flavor and if you, if you're vegan, you want this one and do you want chocolate or vanilla?
[00:18:12] Here you go. And it's like, you know, yeah. That's what it's all about.
[00:18:16] Djenaba: So let's talk about the product a little bit. So it's a chilled custard product. So it's not frozen. Right.
[00:18:21] Joshua: So the way that I explain it most simply is it is a pastry cream. So imagine you go to Capitol Grill or Smith and Wolensky's or you know, any of these very nice restaurants and you order like a creme brulee.
[00:18:35] The cream that is inside the creme brulee is what we make. We make that pastry cream in a variety of flavors. We also make them in both traditional dairy base, which is an egg butter cream base. And then we also, um, in a vegan base. So that would be oat milk, coconut milk, and coconut oil. So that gives our vegan customers a really rich, decadent experience without obviously any of the things that are contrary to their dietary [00:19:00] preferences.
[00:19:00] And then, like I said at the beginning, like, nothing that we make has any of the major allergens in it. Nothing that we make has any fake ingredients in it. All of our flavoring components are very premium flavoring components. So when you taste a Papa's Custard, you get a truly, like, a rich, decadent gourmet experience.
[00:19:16] And they're flexible enough where you can eat them straight out of the jar. Like a jar is this big. Right. This is our dragon fruit.
[00:19:22] Djenaba: I was like wondering, like, does somebody just take a spoon and throw it in the can? So like, this is,
[00:19:27] Joshua: this is our dragon fruit hibiscus custard. This is a vegan custard. And again, as advertised, dragon fruit hibiscus is a little bit of lemon in it, so it kind of brightens up at the very end.
[00:19:35] It's a really nice, like, spring, summer, warm weather product. But you can take something like that and either eat it as its own, you can pair it with fruit, you can put it in a parfait, you can layer it on top of stuff, put it on a croissant. It's really fun. You know, dip things in it, put it on a charcuterie board, all types of things we've seen people do with our custards.
[00:19:56] And so like when I, what I stress to people, most of the time when we speak is like [00:20:00] the comp for this, you know, with all due respect to other brands that are on the shelf, but the comp to this, um, and I'll just mention a couple of category leaders like Petit Pod and Sweet Craft and some other, like, I think Denon has a couple of like really premium like yogurt brands or things like that.
[00:20:12] Those aren't our competitors. But this is not the function of our product, even if it like ends up next to those things on the shelf. The competitor is like you went to a restaurant and you paid 15 for a creme brulee, or you can go to a grocery store and buy this for call it seven or eight bucks. And then you can have more pastry cream than you would have gotten at that creme brulee in that restaurant that you can then make your own creme brulee, like quite literally just put the vanilla stuff on there, put the sugar down, put it in the broiler for like 30 seconds.
[00:20:38] And you have a gourmet creme brulee in your house done.
[00:20:42] Djenaba: So where in the grocery store is the product? So obviously it's in the, it's in a cooler, but like, is it with like the chocolate hummus or is it with the yogurt? It's like, give me an idea.
[00:20:50] Joshua: Generally speaking, uh, we get merchandised next to like refrigerated desserts.
[00:20:55] So we end up next to those category leaders, like Petit Pot or Sweet Craft or [00:21:00] adjacent to the yogurt. And so it, you know, for us, especially as a small brand in person samplings, telling people the story. Giving them the example of what to use and how to use it. All that stuff is super important for us because it's very easy just because we're sitting next to the yogurt for people to see, Ooh, well, this looks really fancy, but it's like, it's right next to the yogurt.
[00:21:20] So is it a yogurt or what's the custard? Is it like ice cream, you know?
[00:21:24] Djenaba: Give us a little bit about the sales. So your, what percentage is farmer's market? What percentages is in retailers? Like, I'm just curious about how you're selling the product, right?
[00:21:32] Joshua: Yeah. So right now we still sell directly in person.
[00:21:35] It's a mix of in person sales in Philadelphia at events, a bit of e commerce. We would love to shift a bit more of our direct to consumer sales away from so many farmer's markets and shift it up into e commerce a bit more. Um, but that's our DTC channel. And then we're stocked mostly in specialty grocers across the Philadelphia region.
[00:21:54] So we're in, uh, Carlino's, which is a specialty grocer out in the main line, which is in the Philly suburbs. [00:22:00] We're in many of the independent food co ops in the area. So in the South Philly co op, we're in the co op near a Swarthmore college as well. We're in some stores down in center city as well. We are recently expanding.
[00:22:13] And so we're in a very specialty store in South Jersey, that's near Bucks County in Stockton, New Jersey. We just got placed in Janssen's Market in Wilmington, Delaware. And we are also stocked at Orchard Grocer just this week, as a matter of fact, stocked at Orchard Grocer in New York City with both of our vegan SKUs.
[00:22:30] Djenaba: That's great. So is it? Is it, is the strategy specialty stores or is there a goal to grow into a more traditional retailer?
[00:22:38] Joshua: I think this, the strategy is threefold. We offer our custards both in this kind of retail packaging and also in bulk. And so the strategy in my mind is build a specialty retail footprint, primarily with independents to start, but certainly, you know, the, the premium grocers, you know, Whole Foods, Sprouts, Moms.
[00:22:58] Et cetera, et cetera, sit around a [00:23:00] gourmet grocer, whomever kind of grocers in that tranche on the retail side and on the wholesale side land, a couple of anchor partnerships with like, really, really well known caterers or like, restaurants that that need this sort of thing. Because like. The benefit of our custard is for, for, from a wholesale perspective is one, there's a labor shortage in food service in general.
[00:23:20] Like you're not going to find a ton of pastry chefs just available period. Two, there are a ton, ton of restaurants. I'm sure you could think of five off the top of your head where you've got a really super talented, savory chef, but there was like five people on the staff. Yeah. And their savory menu is out of this world, but they're, you know, their dessert menu is like, I've got a brownie and ice cream and that's it, you know?
[00:23:44] And I feel really good about that because like no one who is going to hire a pastry chef is going to hire a pastry chef just to make pastry cream. Like a pastry chef is getting hired to do like an entire menu or much more value added or skill dependent stuff than sit over a pot and stir it with a whisk [00:24:00] until you get the right amount of pastry cream.
[00:24:01] And so, you know, you know, Working in food service and offering our stuff there enables restaurants, cafeterias, universities, places like that to have a product that is super high quality. It's clean label. It's fresh. We slack it so like our bulk stuff comes frozen and they just leave it in the walk in until it thaws through.
[00:24:19] You use it straight away like that. It unlocks a lot of that for them. Without, you know, being the one that like puts a pastry chef out of a job. So, you know, think of it like the La Cologne model, you know, as a way, the way that I explain it, like you see us at, you know, a bunch of nice restaurants, you say it's not a bunch of cultural institutions.
[00:24:36] You see, like, we're used by people who know what they're doing and know what quality is, and then you taste us and then you see us in the street or on the, on the shelf. And then, like, the story starts to continually make sense and, and, and understand, you know, people understand what we're offering.
[00:24:51] Djenaba: What piece of advice would you give to somebody that's just starting out?
[00:24:55] Joshua: Someone who's just starting out, I would say. Understand [00:25:00] your risk tolerance and understand the why you're doing it because I tell people all the time like entrepreneurship in my mind is a spectrum, right? Someone who just does their own, you know, I won't say little side hustle, but like someone who does their side hustle on the weekend.
[00:25:14] In my mind is just as much of an entrepreneur as like the person that's on Inc 5, 000 is on the cover of, you know, whatever magazine wants to celebrate entrepreneurs, you're both doing something and putting, uh, you know, your product or your service out on the market, you know, period. But one has a much higher.
[00:25:31] Risk tolerance overall, you know, for financial risk or personal career risk or whatever kind of risk you can say than the other, because, you know, if you're doing something on the weekend, you know, you're an entrepreneur, but you also are full time full, you know, have the capacity to have a full time job and all the great things that, and, you know, very necessary things.
[00:25:53] That you have when you have a full time job, right? And so the risk tolerance is different. So like, if you're starting out, like you have to be [00:26:00] really, really honest with yourself. Am I the person that is comfortable? Most businesses don't make money. Like they're not profitable for the first couple of years.
[00:26:08] Like, am I comfortable watching whatever runway or nest egg that I have in this bank account? Just tick down, tick down, tick down, tick down and continuing to grind. You know, to try to make this thing profitable while that thing just continues to take down over time, right? Until the business is big enough, you know, to take care of us and understanding that that might not ever happen.
[00:26:25] And I just got to understand it. That's the risk. That's the bet. We're making that bet. And if not, then just be real with yourself and say, okay, this is what I'm comfortable doing. And there it is. Right. Then the second thing is the why and if the why is I don't like my job, if the why is I want to be rich, then I would encourage, if that's the only why, right?
[00:26:44] Djenaba: Right.
[00:26:44] Joshua: Then I would strongly encourage you to rethink doing entrepreneurship, you know? Not that that can't happen. Clearly it does. Plenty of times it does, but it's, it's usually like overnight success. Is very much the exception, [00:27:00] not the rule. And if you're only doing it because you don't like what you're doing right now, then you really need to understand what you don't like about what you're doing right now, because there are plenty of other ways to get that fulfillment outside of taking such a big leap as being an entrepreneur.
[00:27:16] If the only thing that's your motivation is I'll like my boss. I don't like this industry. I mean, I don't like my job.
[00:27:22] Djenaba: Right. Right. Yeah. I think entrepreneurship is. The biggest lesson in my personal development, like I've learned so much about myself through being an entrepreneur, like that. I just didn't, you don't realize, like, until you're faced with certain situations, like, what are my values?
[00:27:40] Right? How should I be responding to this situation? I had to like relearn myself, but working in corporate to be an entrepreneur. So it's been, it's been pretty interesting.
[00:27:50] Joshua: No, I, I, I feel it. I dig it. I dig it.
[00:27:56] Djenaba: So being that you are an entrepreneur and a lot [00:28:00] going on with the family and the business and all the other responsibilities that you have, how do you take care of yourself?
[00:28:04] Joshua: So I think. A couple of things, and my wife would argue that I need to do much better taking care of myself than I do. But, a couple of things. As I mentioned earlier, I am, I'm the worship leader at my church. And so like, I am constantly, you know, surrounded by people. prayer and music all the time, right?
[00:28:25] And that is just like the life that I lead. They're deliberate decisions, but it's also just kind of like life, right? And so that's really helpful, especially when we talk about like the amplitude goes really high and then the amplitude immediately goes really low and everything's like, you know, centering back on.
[00:28:43] Why I am doing this and the intense amount of prayer and reflection and asking God, you know, is this what you really want our family to do that? Me and my wife did before we did this. All right. Well, if that's where we've reflected, we've prayed. We're [00:29:00] very confident that this for whatever reason, whether the business is successful or not, obviously hope it is, but we know what we're doing in this moment is what yeah.
[00:29:07] We're supposed to be doing, and therefore it's scary. And we're going to do it anyway. I think that that's it also being really deliberate about recognizing what my limits are is another thing, right? Like I have to sleep. You have to, I have to eat. You have to, like, you have to carve the time out to do it.
[00:29:29] I have to recognize that, you know, I am not going to be able to have like the level of efficacy that I did when I was a management consultant because I don't have the resources that I had when I was a management consultant and like that was a big growth for me at the very beginning where. I was used to like having ridiculous amounts of stuff done in a week as a management consultant because I've got, you know, a team to do this.
[00:29:51] And I had an, I was an associate partner. So I had an assistant that was in schedule, all of this stuff. And I had all these resources, like print stuff for me, you know, research stuff for me, all of these other things. [00:30:00] And something that would have taken me 10 minutes, you know, back in my previous career, you know, it takes.
[00:30:05] A lot. Now
[00:30:08] Joshua: to say nothing of like, you know, we had babysitters before we can afford all that stuff, but like, nah, daddy's the babysitter. I like you gotta be daddy right before you can do that stuff, you know? And so just recognizing and being. Okay. With like, this is the time that I have to do like business specific work specific stuff, and I have to learn to ruthlessly prioritize the things that have to get done and be okay with other things not happening.
[00:30:38] You know, and then also like enlisting support on the stuff that I just don't know what I'm doing on, right. Like, you know, You got to be a generalist as an entrepreneur. Like no one knows everything. Anyone who tells you they know everything is lying. Conversely, if you're waiting to know everything before you start, there's a whole bunch of people out here in these streets don't know nothing and just being loud and wrong and making bank.
[00:30:58] So like, it's not that you [00:31:00] have to be an expert in everything. It is just that you have to really understand what you are good at. What is your strength? What are the areas where you just don't have the muscle and, you know, get help in the areas you don't have the muscle, really focus on the things that you can add and have like a vision for where you want your business to go.
[00:31:17] Do
[00:31:17] Djenaba: you feel like you know more than you think you do?
[00:31:21] Joshua: Yeah.
[00:31:21] Djenaba: And I feel like I definitely as victim to, Oh, let me hire such and such consultant because they know better than me. In a week. So they knew something and that was great, but it wasn't appropriate for me or my business and you know, what everything is.
[00:31:36] So I think it was like, I learning that to kind of just rely on myself a lot of times was, is really important. I think obviously you have to hire people that is going to help you because you, everything you don't know, but like you can set the direction and the vision for your business and get the help where you need it along the way.
[00:31:51] Joshua: Yeah, absolutely. I, I 300 percent agree with that. You know, I think that that's, that's also a lesson, you know, that we learned early on, like [00:32:00] never rely blindly on your gut, right? Obviously you have advisors for a reason. People have had experiences that are valid, but you should also trust that word in your head that says like, Hey, this feels right.
[00:32:11] Or this doesn't feel right. Right. Right. And, you know, I'm hearing this from, you know, the people in my network that have experience. I'm hearing this from these people who I respect as advisors, but I think this will work. So I, the answer there is let me do a little bit more digging and understand the why behind what they're saying.
[00:32:29] Right. And if, you know, the why. applies, then great. You know, I had an engineering professor who said, you know, a bachelor's degree is about like knowing how to use the calculator. A master's degree is about like understanding why the calculator works, right? Like you got to understand why the calculator, what is the math that they already did to spit out that answer that says, no, that's not going to work.
[00:32:48] Right. And does that actual math apply to your specific situation? Sometimes it will, right. And you're just like nine. All right, well, there you go. Sometimes it won't. But that nagging voice in the, in the back of your head that says, I don't know [00:33:00] about that. Like, you got to listen to that. You got to give that credence because otherwise you're not driving your own business.
[00:33:04] You just like on for the ride and you're acting like an employee when you're supposed to be a boss.
[00:33:07] Djenaba: Right. Very good point.
[00:33:14] So at Hudson Kitchen, we have what we call the money bell that we ring when people are celebrating something, whether it be like, um, you know, getting it, bringing our new retail partner or some people ring when they get their paychecks. Yeah.
[00:33:24] Joshua: Hey, listen, I'm ready.
[00:33:27] Djenaba: What are, what are you celebrating right now?
[00:33:29] Could be personal or professional.
[00:33:31] Joshua: I think growing, you know, like I said, we started like I, we started it back in 2020. I think official like business start for me is last year, just because that's the time we took a full time. Really? And you know, we were named one of the top 30 or so vegan brands in the country at the bro plant based expo.
[00:33:49] We were, we've been, you know, semifinalists for whole foods lead program. We, Uh, just like I said, like Janssen's market in Delaware, Orchard Grocer in New York, [00:34:00] uh, Stockton market in New Jersey, all of that's expansion on three different states that has happened like in the last five weeks. Right. And you know, we're continuing to build our footprint.
[00:34:10] You know, we're learning different things and ways to more effectively serve our retailers, to serve the consumer. And you know, people just like our stuff, like it's delicious. And like, I have yet to find someone who doesn't have like a, who I don't like soft consistency stuff.
[00:34:25] Djenaba: Right.
[00:34:25] Joshua: Kind of thing. Like, I don't eat like, like soft pudding y like stuff outside of that.
[00:34:29] I've yet to find someone who's tasted our stuff and not said it was the most amazing, most delicious thing they tasted like in that kind of thing. And so, you know, I'm just celebrating. Celebrating the journey, right? Celebrating the growth, celebrating the challenges and celebrating, you know, the opportunities that are there.
[00:34:44] Right.
[00:34:45] Djenaba: Yes. Amazing. Thank you. So Josh, thank you so much for being here. Let everyone know where they can find out all about you and Papa's Custard Company.
[00:34:55] Joshua: Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, if you go to our website, www dot papas [00:35:00] custard, P-O-P-P-A-S-C-U-S-T-A-R d.com, you can find out all about what we do. You can order online, we'll ship anywhere in the country, uh, straight to your door.
[00:35:10] Um, you can also check us out on Instagram at papas custard co. Uh, same spelling, you know, we post where we're at in terms of. new retail partners, you know, where we're operating in terms in the city of Philadelphia for launching new flavors, all of the above. So check us out on Instagram, follow us up, follow up on the website, order a couple of jars of custard.
[00:35:32] Really appreciate that. And yeah, you know, Would appreciate the support.
[00:35:36] Djenaba: Thank you.
[00:35:37] Joshua: Thank you.
[00:35:40] Djenaba: The food means business podcast was produced by Hudson kitchen. It is recorded at the studio at Kearney point and mixed and edited by wild home podcasting. Our theme song is by Damien DeSandis and I'm your host, Djenaba Johnson-Jones.
[00:35:53] Follow Hudson kitchen on Instagram at the Hudson kitchen and to get food business news updates. It's right in your inbox, sign up for our [00:36:00] newsletter at the Hudson kitchen. com forward slash newsletter, listen, follow, and leave a review on Apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get podcasts until next time.