Navigating Food Law with Lauren Handel
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Meet Lauren Handel
Lauren Handel is an attorney for food, beverage, and supplement businesses and entrepreneurs. Lauren helps clients with regulatory compliance and enforcement actions, risk mitigation, commercial contracts, intellectual property, recalls, and disputes.
Lauren has more than 20 years of experience as an attorney. She previously was a partner at McDermott Will & Emery LLP where her practice concentrated on product liability and environmental litigation. After a decade of counseling and defending Fortune 50 companies, Lauren decided to put her skills to work for independent businesses that produce the things she is most passionate about − good food and drink.
Episode Highlights
During this episode of The Food Means Business Podcast, we discuss:
Lauren’s transition from a traditional legal career to specializing in food law and starting an independent practice
Understanding the legal standards and regulations that apply to your products and marketing claims
Being aware of potential legal risks, such as class-action lawsuits, ADA compliance, and Prop 65
Conducting a comprehensive trademark search and application as early as possible to ensure your brand is protectable and not subject to infringement liability
Hiring a lawyer review or draft key contracts to avoid potential pitfalls
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00;00;00;01 - 00;00;03;13
Djenaba
Hello, Lauren. Welcome to the Food Means Business podcast. I'm so happy that you're here.
00;00;04;02 - 00;00;05;00
Lauren Handel
Thanks for having me.
00;00;06;00 - 00;00;17;06
Djenaba
So we are all about speaking with individuals that kind of quit their day job to start a food business. And while I realize that you are an attorney, you did just that. If you can just give us a little bit about your career trajectory.
00;00;17;19 - 00;00;44;18
Lauren Handel
Sure. Yeah. So I started my career as a lawyer at a very big firm at first in Washington, D.C., and then in New York City. And I did that for about ten years. And my practice was mostly really large scale litigation for Fortune ten, really, companies for the biggest of the big. And it was fine and intellectually very interesting.
00;00;44;18 - 00;01;13;27
Lauren Handel
And I worked with really good people, but I definitely burned out on it. And it wasn't something that I was personally passionate about. And so I started to think about what else I could do. And for a while, actually was trying to plan out a food business. It would have been like a local online food hub sort of business, which was daunting, and I was totally not qualified and didn't have nearly enough money to do.
00;01;14;10 - 00;01;46;25
Lauren Handel
And in the middle of all of that was going to a lot of conferences, you know, in New York City area there, as I'm sure you know, so many events for people who are interested in food issues and food business. And so I was going to these things and just really interested in this industry and then heard about food law as an area of practice, which is a relatively new thing for people to consider food law as its own specialty.
00;01;47;11 - 00;02;15;10
Lauren Handel
And there was actually at the time, only one school that offered an advanced legal degree program in food and agricultural law. And I said, this sounds perfect. And so I quit my job and my big firm salary and moved to Arkansas to do this program for a year. And it was it's been great. I haven't looked back. I started my own practice since then and I can't really imagine going back to working for somebody else.
00;02;15;20 - 00;02;23;01
Djenaba
I totally agree with you. So talk to me a little bit about the food business that you wanted to start that kind of got you on this road.
00;02;23;14 - 00;02;45;23
Lauren Handel
Yeah. So an example of it if, if people are might be familiar with a good AGs, they're on the West Coast in the Bay Area. They actually tried they proved to me that I was right to give up on this idea. They actually tried to make it in the New York City area and they were not able to do it.
00;02;46;01 - 00;03;04;15
Lauren Handel
They maybe tried to grow too fast, but it would have been like an online site where you can order from local farmers and local food artisans and have it all delivered to you like other grocery deliver grocery delivery services, but with a local food emphasis.
00;03;05;02 - 00;03;08;04
Djenaba
Got it. So almost like a CSA that delivers.
00;03;08;23 - 00;03;10;06
Lauren Handel
Yeah, except not just from one.
00;03;10;16 - 00;03;11;08
Djenaba
Right. Of course.
00;03;11;11 - 00;03;15;00
Lauren Handel
It's a little bit more of a an online farmer's market sort of.
00;03;15;11 - 00;03;30;07
Djenaba
Make sense. So. So you went in to get that went and got the degree in Arkansas and you came back and started your own food law practice. Can you talk a little about your practice and what you offer to food entrepreneurs?
00;03;30;17 - 00;03;50;29
Lauren Handel
Sure. Yeah. So I'm based in New Jersey and I have but I have a virtual practice and I serve clients really all over the country and in other countries. And there's kind of three main things that I do. There's a little bit of other things here and there as people need it, but the most of it is regulatory compliance.
00;03;51;15 - 00;04;20;14
Lauren Handel
A lot of that is reviewing people's labels and marketing claims, not only for compliance with the regulations that exist, but also to try to protect people from getting sued because there's very active class action litigation against food businesses these days. The second component of my practice is trademark. So I do a lot of work in helping people to secure rights in their brands, trademark searches and applications, and then also disputes as they come up.
00;04;21;13 - 00;04;49;05
Lauren Handel
And then the third area is contracts. So I do a lot of contracts between businesses like co manufacturing, co packaging, distributor, broker, product developer and just different kinds of services agreements that are common in the food industry. All my clients are in food or beverage or supplements. Mostly they're packaged goods, but there's also some restaurants and caterers and some farmers and some importers.
00;04;49;27 - 00;04;52;04
Lauren Handel
It's kind of the full supply chain.
00;04;52;24 - 00;04;59;28
Djenaba
So are there specific sized businesses that you work with or is working on mostly with start ups or people that are more established?
00;05;00;07 - 00;05;33;25
Lauren Handel
I have a lot of start ups. I have a lot of older, but still small, closely held businesses as clients. But I also have some pretty big clients. The so it's all food. And as I said, food law is is a relatively new phenomenon and there aren't really a lot of options for for people to find a lawyer who who really knows the law that applies to food as well as the other kind of small business stuff.
00;05;33;25 - 00;05;34;05
Djenaba
Right.
00;05;34;12 - 00;05;59;03
Lauren Handel
So you can go to a really big firm that'll have FDA lawyers and you'll pay really big firm prices for that. But that same lawyer who can help you with regulatory issues is not going to be the one that will work on your contract. So it's it's a it's a good niche for me because very helpful to understand the industry and to be able to advise on all those different facets of the business.
00;06;00;06 - 00;06;04;25
Djenaba
So why go out on your own and not go try to work with one of these big firms? Just curious.
00;06;05;17 - 00;06;27;28
Lauren Handel
Yeah, well, I kind of knew that the big firm life wasn't for me anymore. And honestly, if I wanted to stay at a big firm, I just would have stayed where I was. It was actually a very good firm. I just didn't want to be doing what I was doing and given how new of a practice area this is and you know, I mean, it's not new law.
00;06;27;28 - 00;06;42;04
Lauren Handel
It's just that nobody ever really thought of being a food lawyer before, you know, ten, ten years ago, this was like a brand new thing. So there wasn't another logical place for me to go. So I kind of just had to create my own thing of it.
00;06;42;04 - 00;07;14;12
Djenaba
So. I would love for you to give some tips to our listeners, and I want to preface this by saying that this does not constitute legal advice. If you need some legal advice, you'll need to retain your own attorney. So before you get started there. So yeah, if you would if you would let I left, I know you were, as you mentioned, worked with quite a few different types of food entrepreneurs and you came up with four tips that kind of across the board that can give to you to our listeners.
00;07;15;00 - 00;07;38;21
Lauren Handel
Yeah, sure. So Tip One is understand the legal standards and the regulations that apply to your products and the claims that you might want to make about them. So what I find, especially with start ups, is a lot of people are unaware that food is so heavily regulated and that the marketing and labeling of food is so heavily regulated.
00;07;39;11 - 00;08;00;26
Lauren Handel
I think there's an assumption that because we're all we're all familiar with food, right? Experience food every day. We all cook to some level. And so it's maybe not something you would think of as being highly regulated, but it really is because I mean, let's face it, food is potentially very dangerous. And it's also it's a consumer product.
00;08;00;26 - 00;08;24;10
Lauren Handel
There's a lot of advertising and representations that are made about food. And, you know, the government has an interest in protecting consumers. So there's a lot of law that exists. And I'm not suggesting that people need to, you know, get law degrees, but it really is important to understand what are going to be the the issues that are going to set guardrails around your own product.
00;08;25;04 - 00;08;51;29
Lauren Handel
And I've been surprised to find that a lot of people rely on product development consultants. And the consultants, while they may be really good at the technical aspects of developing a product that tastes great and bakes great and, you know, has the right texture, don't always fully know the rules about what kinds of claims you'll be able to make in the end.
00;08;52;06 - 00;09;27;01
Lauren Handel
And often startups don't come to me until they're all done. They've got a product, they're ready to go. They just want to print their packaging next week. Can you just take a quick look at it and make sure it's okay? And I'll see an issue that will fundamentally have to change the product, you know, so somebody, for example, wants to position their product as a great source of plant based protein and they'll develop a bar or whatever it is and have all these claims about protein.
00;09;27;01 - 00;09;49;19
Lauren Handel
And it's really essential to their value proposition and failed to realize that to make a claim like that, you would have to have at least 20% daily value of protein. And the daily value of protein is not a very simple matter. You can't just take the grams of protein and divide it by 50, which is the recommended daily intake of protein, because not all protein is the same.
00;09;49;19 - 00;10;12;27
Lauren Handel
You actually have to get a lab to analyze this. Plant based proteins are lower quality proteins than animal sources, and so you may not actually have the percent daily value that you need to support the claims you want to make. And then just in general, claims require substantiation. So people want to make all kinds of functional claims about products these days.
00;10;14;07 - 00;10;38;05
Lauren Handel
I see lots of this and then I ask my clients, okay, so you say that this is useful for, you know, brain function. What evidence do you have of that? And they say, well, there's all kinds of other products that say the same way, but that's not a good answer. And, you know, the truth is that nobody's going to ask you to submit this evidence ahead of time.
00;10;38;05 - 00;11;05;16
Lauren Handel
It's not like getting approval of a drug where, you know, FDA requires you do all kinds of studies and submit them and they review it all carefully. But if an agency or more likely a plaintiff's lawyer thinks that there's something fishy about the claims you're making, then all this is going to come out and you really do need to be able to back up the any factual representations that you're making about a claim with competent evidence.
00;11;05;21 - 00;11;09;26
Lauren Handel
So those are that's tip one. Understand what the rules are.
00;11;09;29 - 00;11;19;10
Djenaba
So it's almost like someone needs to work with with you in tandem with working with formulator, our product developer, to ensure that they're doing the right thing.
00;11;19;17 - 00;11;48;24
Lauren Handel
Yeah, I really think the earlier the better unless what you're doing, you know, you're just making cookies and you're only going to say that they're delicious and there's really, you know, nothing that's in the territory of potentially controversial claims, nutrition claims, functional claims, health benefits, anything like that, environmental claims, if it's just really simple, then it's probably fine not to have that kind of legal advice.
00;11;48;24 - 00;12;11;14
Lauren Handel
But if there's something that's going to be really essential to your product positioning and it's based on a on a claim, you need to know that. And also can be if you're using unusual ingredients, things that know there are a lot of products that incorporate various botanicals these days that are traditionally used in food that you might see in supplements.
00;12;12;00 - 00;12;28;17
Lauren Handel
Well, there are rules around that. You might not be able to use it in a product that you market as a conventional food. So earlier the better, because I have had many situations where, again, the client comes to me at the last minute thinking, Oh, it’s the check the box, let me get a legal review before we print this packaging.
00;12;29;05 - 00;12;32;20
Lauren Handel
And I find issues that really should have been considered at the outset.
00;12;33;10 - 00;12;41;28
Djenaba
And then they're forced to start over again. Okay, let's let's let's move forward.
00;12;41;28 - 00;13;09;00
Lauren Handel
All right. Tip Two Don't assume you're too small or too new to get sued. So the the reality, the unfortunate reality is great for lawyers, but not so good for everybody else, is that we live in a country where it's very easy to get sued, doesn't cost very much for somebody to sue you. And it's not very difficult for them to write a complaint that survives at least the initial stages.
00;13;09;20 - 00;13;44;12
Lauren Handel
And everybody pays their own legal fees in our system. So there is a very active segment of the class action plaintiff's bar that targets food companies, food and beverage and supplement companies for representations they make mostly on their labels, but also to some extent on their in their advertising, like their websites. And it's become such a popular area of class action litigation that these plaintiffs lawyers, some of them have an M.O. of they go after the big guys, which you would expect, right?
00;13;44;14 - 00;14;13;10
Lauren Handel
You go after the deep pockets. But they also send out many, many demand letters to small companies. I've had companies that were in business, you know, a few months and they've gotten demand letters. And so this is a letter that says, I represent so-and-so plaintiff who bought your product. And for this reason, whatever you said on your product is not true or is misleading and therefore, everybody who's purchased this product is damaged.
00;14;13;10 - 00;14;41;16
Lauren Handel
And we're going to sue and represent a class of all of these consumers unless you fix it. But really, it's just trying to get you to pay a settlement. And if you can send out dozens of those letters every month and get people to pay, you know, even in some cases just a few thousand dollars each, then you can fund your practice as you're going after the bigger guys that actually fight back and have the resources to litigate grow.
00;14;42;03 - 00;14;46;07
Djenaba
So it's almost like, I hate to say this, this term, but ambulance chasers for for food.
00;14;47;10 - 00;15;17;24
Lauren Handel
Yeah. I mean, that's yeah, I don't think that's an unfair characterization. So yeah. So it just means that there's a premium on being really careful about your labels because the truth is the, the regulators are not very active in enforcing the rules. There are a lot of rules, but they don't have the resources to really devote to policing all of that in the marketplace.
00;15;18;11 - 00;15;45;05
Lauren Handel
So it's really only the most egregious labeling issues that get to the attention of regulatory enforcement. But the plaintiffs lawyers are filling in that gap big time and labels are a big example of this, but also an increasing area for this, especially for anybody who does their own e-commerce. If you have a Web site where you actually sell your products, ADA compliance has become a huge issue.
00;15;45;21 - 00;16;05;17
Lauren Handel
The people are getting hit with lawsuits alleging that a website is not compliant for usually for a blind consumer. And so that's that's an area where you really need to invest in website development to make sure your site is compliant with the standards.
00;16;05;24 - 00;16;12;03
Djenaba
Well, I had I hadn't thought about that at all. That's a good point. And what about Prop 65 violations?
00;16;12;03 - 00;16;34;16
Lauren Handel
Yeah. So this has been around for a long time. It's not going away. So if you are in this industry and you don't know what Prop 65 is, unless you are never going to sell in California, you're you're doing yourself a really big disservice. You have to be familiar with these rules. Prop 65 is a law in California that requires warnings on products, including food and beverages.
00;16;34;16 - 00;17;02;14
Lauren Handel
If they contain chemicals or could expose consumers to chemicals that are on a list that the state has put out that are carcinogens or reproductive hazards. And if there's a potential for your product to have one of these chemicals at a level that exceeds their safe harbors, and in this list the California puts out, if it exceeds the safe harbor level, then you're required to have the warning.
00;17;03;01 - 00;17;24;24
Lauren Handel
Now, there are exceptions for companies that have fewer than ten employees are technically exempt from this law. So a lot of startups think, oh, it doesn't apply to me. I don't need to worry about it. The problem is, unless you're strictly direct to consumer, if you're selling to distributors or retailers in California, if you're exempt, the retailer will be on the hook.
00;17;25;23 - 00;17;42;29
Lauren Handel
So your customers, those wholesalers and retailers in their vendor terms, all have language where you're promising them that your product complies with Prop 65. So even though you're technically exempt, if you're small, you're still going to have to make sure you have any warnings that are required.
00;17;43;19 - 00;17;51;00
Djenaba
Does it? And I don't know much about perhaps if I have. I'm just wondering, is it is it the actual food product itself? And does it also extend to the packaging as well?
00;17;51;19 - 00;18;21;09
Lauren Handel
Yes, it can. It so BPA in packaging is one of the chemicals on the Prop 65. Listen, there might be other food contact substances in packaging that could migrate to the food because the test is is will the consumer be exposed at a level that exceeds the safe harbor? And so there's the potential for that in packaging. And the reason why it's such a big issue is, again, not because of regulatory enforcement, although that's a possibility, it's because the law has a bounty hunter provision.
00;18;21;09 - 00;18;28;11
Lauren Handel
And so it incentivizes plaintiffs lawyers to bring class action lawsuits to enforce this law.
00;18;28;11 - 00;18;40;14
Djenaba
So let's talk about trademarks. This is near and dear to my heart because I've had to send someone before me.
00;18;40;14 - 00;18;41;10
Lauren Handel
Yeah. Which is.
00;18;41;25 - 00;19;04;19
Djenaba
It's not fun at all. It was actually it wasn't fun, but it kind of needed needed to be done. It actually happened to me twice. Once I handled it on my own, in my own way, I actually visited the person, they were local to this area and decided they just liked my logo. I wanted to use it. So I went to visit them, gave them two weeks to correct the issue.
00;19;05;12 - 00;19;10;28
Djenaba
And the other one I had to I didn't have to get a lawyer involved in order to in order to get that taken care of.
00;19;10;28 - 00;19;40;03
Lauren Handel
Yeah. And you know, so there are more gentle or more aggressive approaches that you can take in this. But it is it is important because people might not realize that you could go through all the steps to protect your trademark by getting it registered. But then if you never police at if you let other people copy your trademark, use something very similar, and especially if it's causing consumer confusion, then you're losing your trademark rights.
00;19;40;03 - 00;20;12;27
Lauren Handel
The registration is going to be meaningless if it turns out that you've basically abandoned your rights by failing to protect them. So Tip Three and again, this also this comes from experience with many clients do a comprehensive trademark search and an application for registration as early as possible. I've had plenty of clients come to me. I've even had clients who've been in business for a really long time and they've been using a trademark and then like, Oh, I think I finally got to do this now of getting it registered.
00;20;13;11 - 00;20;38;00
Lauren Handel
And I'll do a search and I'll find out that there's there are other trademark out trademarks out there that are the same or very similar. And the test is, is it confusingly similar? Is there another trademark that consumers are likely to confuse with yours? Both because the trademark itself is similar or the same, and because it's used with goods or services that are similar or related to yours.
00;20;38;27 - 00;20;55;01
Lauren Handel
And you just don't want to be in that position, you know, as even if you haven't gotten your product out on the market yet, you're going to invest a lot of money in building this brand, right? You're going to buy the the web domain. You're going to invest in the packaging and logo design and all of that stuff.
00;20;55;22 - 00;21;18;02
Lauren Handel
And then do a trademark search after the fact, only to find out that Mark's not actually available. If you use it, you're subjecting yourself potentially to trademark infringement, and now you've got to redo all of that work and come up with something else. So it's a good thing to do early. You can apply for trademark registration based on the intent to use the trademark in commerce.
00;21;18;15 - 00;21;48;22
Lauren Handel
It won't actually be registered until you have sales or distribution of a product in commerce. But that intent to use application, it's kind of like securing the mark for your holding it for you while you finish your product development work and actually get a product made and all that, those steps done. And then after the application has gone through the whole approval process, which right now is taking over a year, you'll get what's called a notice of allowance.
00;21;48;22 - 00;22;17;28
Lauren Handel
And then you have to you have a deadline of six months to submit a statement saying now you're using the trademark in commerce and then the mark can be registered. So it's a good idea to do that as early as possible, like I said. And, you know, even to even do some your own preliminary searches. And I always tell clients, if they come to me for trademark search work and they haven't done anything other than maybe a Google search, I go on the USPTO website, there's a database there.
00;22;17;28 - 00;22;44;25
Lauren Handel
It's called Task T. S S, there's a basic search. At least do your own basic search because it's free and you'll see if there's something that comes back that's just obviously a problem. And if you don't find any obvious problems on your own, then get a lawyer or somebody else who knows how to do a more comprehensive search to ensure that you really will be successful in getting securing this trademark.
00;22;44;25 - 00;22;46;24
Lauren Handel
But that's a good a good first step.
00;22;47;06 - 00;22;55;07
Djenaba
So how would one police know just to ensure that no one is infringing on on their trademark.
00;22;55;29 - 00;23;23;12
Lauren Handel
Yeah. So e if certainly if you become aware. So some I've had clients where consumers thinking that they were going to somebody else contacted my client. Right. So they found out that way that there's someone else out there using the same brand. I actually had a client who received money from somebody who was trying to pay somebody else because the brands were very similar.
00;23;24;17 - 00;23;53;02
Lauren Handel
So you might just find out about it that there's somebody else out there, but you can actually subscribe for a watch service. So there are a few different companies that provide this service. And usually you can you definitely can do it through a law firm that has a trademark practice, but they're using one of these services. So it's an automated system that is constantly monitoring the USPTO trademark database.
00;23;53;10 - 00;24;13;11
Lauren Handel
And whenever a new application shows up that is similar to your trademark and you can select the search parameters you'll get paid or the lawyer will get paid and the lawyer can look at it and say, like, this doesn't look like a problem at all, or I need to let me know what my client know, that maybe we should reach out to this person.
00;24;13;11 - 00;24;38;26
Lauren Handel
And that's very useful because if you can stop that application early on, then it will be much more simple than having to later try to cancel the registration. You know, if you weren't aware of it and that somehow that person was able to get their application approved and then registered, then you'd have to take greater steps to get it canceled.
00;24;39;23 - 00;25;12;24
Lauren Handel
Another really big benefit of trademark registration is to some extent the Trademark Office is policing your mark for you because every application gets reviewed by an examining attorney of the Trademark Office. And what they're looking for are other trademarks that were already in the database that are confusingly similar to this new application. And so they will refuse the new application if they think it's too similar to a prior filed application or a prior registered trademark.
00;25;13;21 - 00;25;35;09
Lauren Handel
So that's a lot of protection that you're just getting along with the with your registration. You pay for the one registration. And as long as it remains active, that's a benefit that you have. It's not perfect and you should supplement it with your own work because also people might pop up. Like in your case, I'm guessing that person didn't apply for trademark.
00;25;35;09 - 00;25;47;08
Lauren Handel
I know, but you know, so you wouldn't have found them with one of those watch services. But, you know, you can set Google alerts. There's different ways to kind of monitor uses outside the trademark database.
00;25;47;13 - 00;25;52;06
Djenaba
We found both on both with simple Google searches. Yeah, my husband, actually.
00;25;52;08 - 00;26;12;05
Lauren Handel
So it's good to set up Google alerts for keywords in your brand too. You get news alerts and hopefully it's always reports about you that you're getting. But if something pops up like, Oh wow, that sounds way too close to me, you might want to take some steps to stop that person.
00;26;12;23 - 00;26;14;29
Djenaba
So let's talk about your last tip.
00;26;15;26 - 00;26;39;12
Lauren Handel
Tip Four is have a lawyer review or draft key contracts and I'm talking about key contracts. Yeah, it's not necessarily everything, although I do have some clients who want me to look at everything before they sign it. It's not always necessary, but I have many more clients who I know. I fully understand the start up know shoestring budget.
00;26;39;12 - 00;27;01;28
Lauren Handel
I get it. But you have to think about the longer term. And I've had many clients that end up paying for not getting that legal review at the beginning when this relationship for like a co manufacturing relationship that they spent a lot of money on ends up falling apart or something goes wrong and their contract doesn't protect them.
00;27;02;21 - 00;27;31;07
Lauren Handel
So, you know, I think of contracts that are key for legal review would be anything where you're going to spend a significant amount of money, whatever that number is, is going to differ from person to person and how much resources they have. But if it's a significant investment, from your standpoint, well, you probably it's probably worth having a lawyer at least look it over and make sure you're protected or if it's an ongoing relationship.
00;27;31;07 - 00;27;51;25
Lauren Handel
So co manufacturing is a great example of that broker relationships. If you're committing yourself to doing business with somebody, chances are something's not going to go right at some point, right? Hopefully it's nothing devastating. But, you know, there will be problems in any relationship, right? So make sure you're protective.
00;27;52;15 - 00;28;07;11
Djenaba
Cool. This, that's so helpful. Thank you so much for those tips. So just to switch gears a little bit, you are a food entrepreneur in a different way from some of the other people that I've spoken to. So wondering like, what do you do to relax and and kind of step away from your business?
00;28;08;11 - 00;28;27;28
Lauren Handel
Yeah, well, I really like to cook, so. So yeah, I guess food obviously is a big interest and passion of mine. So I do like to cook, I like I like a project. I like something that takes a day to make kind of thing. I don't like the everyday dinners, but, you know, the big kind of fun projects.
00;28;28;14 - 00;28;40;22
Lauren Handel
I like that. I like hiking and I've recently started doing okay, which I'm not very good at. I recently completed only my second successful project.
00;28;41;16 - 00;28;43;29
Djenaba
Which was like a hat.
00;28;44;23 - 00;29;05;04
Lauren Handel
I made two hats, which I what I like about it is you have to focus on it, right? You can't think about other things when you're counting stitches and trying to remember if you're knitting or pearling and you know, like so so it's a great way to eliminate those other, you know, pesky thoughts going through your head. So I like it's meditative.
00;29;05;05 - 00;29;21;29
Djenaba
That's that's really cool. So also it had some kitchen. We have what we call a money bell. So some of our clients ring the bell when they take on new retail partners or some of their employees ring the bell when they get their paychecks. So wondering what your what you want to ring the bell about? What are you celebrating?
00;29;21;29 - 00;29;26;20
Djenaba
Could be a big win. Anything personal or professional?
00;29;26;20 - 00;29;49;09
Lauren Handel
Yeah, well, I. I recently crossed the threshold last. So last summer I crossed the threshold where I was out of my prior job as long as I was okay. So I have now been on my own with my own law practice longer than I was an associate and partner at a law firm.
00;29;50;06 - 00;30;00;12
Djenaba
Yeah, that's really cool. That's great to celebrate. Thank you. So to end, please tell the listeners where they can find more out more about you and handle food law.
00;30;02;01 - 00;30;22;04
Lauren Handel
Yeah so handelfoodlaw.com is my Web site. I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook and Twitter. But you can find my my email address on the website, too. But it's Lauren@handelfoodlaw.com. Feel free to reach out to me or there's a contact page on the Web site and my phone numbers on there as well.
00;30;22;17 - 00;30;29;20
Lauren Handel
Anybody who's got questions or they're not sure if they need a lawyer, just feel free to contact me. I'm always happy to do an initial consult.
00;30;29;29 - 00;30;31;24
Djenaba
Thank you so much. I appreciate you being here.