Building Brooklyn Delhi on Her Own Terms with Chitra Agrawal
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In entrepreneurship, it’s not uncommon to hear stories of meteoric success, founders looking for investors of all kinds, and businesses trying to expand as quickly as possible to take up market share. And there’s nothing wrong with that, but it’s not the kind of entrepreneur that Chitra Agrawal is.
Chitra is the founder of Brooklyn Delhi, and she’ll be the first to tell you that she’s very risk averse, that she didn’t want to grow too fast, and that she doesn’t want any investor money (at least at this point.) And yet, she’s built a thriving CPG business anyway.
In today’s episode, she’s telling the story of exactly how she’s grown Brooklyn Delhi in her own way and on her own terms. She’s sharing how supper clubs, Blue Apron, and online marketing all played a part in the creation and expansion of Brooklyn Delhi, plus her best advice for those wanting to follow in her footsteps.
This is one episode you cannot miss. Let’s dive in!
Subscribe to the Food Means Business Podcast with Hudson Kitchen founder Djenaba Johnson-Jones to hear the personal stories and “secret ingredients” of abandoning your day job and starting a CPG food business.
In this episode, you’ll learn...
[00:50] How a supper club led to the Brooklyn Delhi
[08:05] How Chitra started with online sales and marketing for Brooklyn Delhi and why she grew production conservatively
[13:06] Why her partnership Blue Apron was so impactful early on
[15:48] The types of employees at Brooklyn Delhi and how Chitra decided to bring them on
[19:12] Why Chitra hasn’t taken any investment money for Brooklyn Delhi (so far)
[23:21] Chitra’s best advice for aspiring CPG entrepreneurs
If you want to hear how an established CPG business grew on their own terms, be sure to tune into this episode:
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About Chitra Agrawal
Chitra Agrawal is the Founder and CEO of Brooklyn Delhi, a premium Indian food brand inspired by her heritage. The brand's simmer sauces, condiments and newly launched heat & eat meals can be found at retailers across the country including at Whole Foods, Albertson's, Publix and more. Chitra is the author of Vibrant India: Fresh Vegetarian Recipes from Bangalore to Brooklyn (Penguin, 2017). She has specialized in developing recipes reflective of her Indian-American identity since 2009. Her work and writing have been featured in The New York Times, Food & Wine,The Wall Street Journal and more. Prior to founding Brooklyn Delhi in 2014, Chitra worked in Digital Marketing for over a decade at companies such as American Express and DDB. She holds a BA from UC Berkeley and an MBA from NYU Stern.
Connect with Chitra Agrawal:
Visit the Brooklyn Delhi website
Follow Brooklyn Delhi on Instagram
Follow Brooklyn Delhi on Facebook
Connect with Chitra on LinkedIn
Stay Connected with Djenaba Johnson-Jones:
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[00:00:00] Djenaba: You are listening to the food means business podcast, which features the personal stories and secret ingredients behind what it's like to abandon your day job to start a CPG food and beverage business. I'm Djenaba Johnson Jones, former marketing executive turned entrepreneur and founder of food business incubator Hudson kitchen.
[00:00:20] Join our community of fellow food business owners and subject matter experts. First to learn and laugh with us as we explore a startup world. That's a little more culinary and a lot less corporate these days. Hi, Chitra Welcome to the food means business podcast. So I'm so happy you're here.
[00:00:35] Chitra: Thanks so much for having me.
[00:00:36] I'm so excited.
[00:00:37] Djenaba: Absolutely. So before we talk about Brooklyn deli, I'd love to hear about you and your, your career trajectory. Like you weren't always an entrepreneur. You used to work some corporate jobs. So I'd love to hear about all that.
[00:00:49] Chitra: Yeah. So actually right out of school, I've worked in investment banking.
[00:00:54] Djenaba: Oh, wow.
[00:00:54] Chitra: Yeah. And I was terrible at it. And I then was fired. [00:01:00] I definitely knew that that was not my path. And then after that, I started working in digital marketing and I liked that a lot more. The thing I feel like because there was a creative aspect to it. So I was working in LA at the time at an agency that mainly worked with movie studios.
[00:01:20] And so we would help with, uh, like building websites and like campaigns around new movies. And then after that, I went to business school. I specialized in marketing and then I got a job at American Express where I was working on digital campaigns for their travel business. And yeah, I guess like after that, I started working at a startup, still doing digital and, but actually when I was at both like Amex and the startup, I started doing like.
[00:01:54] Work and food as well. My side hustle.
[00:01:59] Djenaba: So, so [00:02:00] what were you doing, I guess, in evenings and weekends?
[00:02:03] Chitra: Evenings and weekends was blogging. So 2009, I started my food blog, the ABCDs of cooking, and it was kind of just a way to write down my family's recipes from India. And I mean, it was really a way just to document them because I had all these recipes in all of these different places, and I wanted this centralized place to put them.
[00:02:25] And really, it was just for my family. Um, But what ended up happening is that people started to read the blog and kind of learn more about these recipes. And then I started teaching cooking classes for people and then started to meet a lot of other home cooks in Brooklyn that were also blogging or they were hosting pop up dinners.
[00:02:48] And I collaborated with a number of other, uh, I guess a Mexican chef who we did an Indian Mexican supper club for a while. It's all a [00:03:00] loca. We were selling like, you know, Indian tacos at, um, markets in the city and just doing these really fun pop up dinners. And then I started doing a pop up dinner with.
[00:03:15] A friend of mine who is a Chinese cookbook author, so it was dedicated to Tangra, the neighborhood in India that is a mix of Indian and Chinese population and the food is just this amazing fusion. I was partnering with a lot of different farmers and CSAs to use a lot of the local veggies to, to make the dishes for a lot of these dinners.
[00:03:40] And so it was kind of like really busy. Because I'm working a day job and then I was just dreaming about what my next event would be or what my next recipe would be that I would be posting. And so it was a really fun time for me because I could just explore and I still had a paycheck.
[00:03:59] Djenaba: [00:04:00] Yeah, that's the best part.
[00:04:01] I think that a lot of people think they have to take this big leap and leave their job and you don't necessarily have to do that.
[00:04:08] Chitra: Right. Yes. And I think it also gave me the ability to explore and figure out what it is that I really wanted to do with food because I didn't know, you know, and it was like with every opportunity that came up, it was just like, someone would ask me, Hey, do you want to sell?
[00:04:30] Food at this market. And I was like, sure. I've never done it before. I'll try, see what this is all about. And then it's like, oh my God, that's so much work. But it was all like, just very fun and kind of low stakes because it wasn't like, you know, I needed to sell a certain amount. It was more about just like creating something different than I could just put out into the world.
[00:04:54] Djenaba: So when did Brooklyn Delhi come to you? To be like, when did you decide to launch a brand?
[00:04:59] Chitra: [00:05:00] Yeah, I feel like that also was kind of this very natural or organic progression where when I was doing all the work just in food, then I got approached to write a cookbook and that is what became Vibrant India. And it was at that same time that.
[00:05:18] I got laid off from my job and I was like, so the universe is sending me a sign here. My boyfriend at the time, well, he's still, now he's my husband. He was a food packaging designer and he was like, you know, some of those condiments, those achars that you're serving at those pop up dinners. Why don't you make those and we could design a brand around it.
[00:05:42] And I'm a very risk averse person, but I swear, I'm like, Ben, if you had not said that this would not have happened. You know, one of the things I was just like, he was like, why don't we try? And I'm like, okay. So that's kind of how the idea of it [00:06:00] started. But the funny thing is, is that there was this competition called the power up competition, right?
[00:06:06] It's put on by the Brooklyn library and they would give you like 10, 000 if you submitted this business plan. And so Ben and I worked on this. project together. We did everything, wrote the whole plan and did all the branding and everything, submitted it and lost. It was like, okay, we lost, but we did all this work.
[00:06:32] Right. Like, let's just do it. I love that.
[00:06:37] Djenaba: And we won.
[00:06:41] Chitra: Yeah. So we just, Threw ourselves into it. And, you know, I, I worked the first four years of Brooklyn deli still. So I was doing freelance marketing work and then I was using my advance also living off of that. It was hard though. I mean, it's a [00:07:00] different transition because you know, when you're getting the paycheck, you have, you know, benefits and all these things.
[00:07:07] Like, you don't, and you're single, like, I was single, didn't have kids, and
[00:07:11] Djenaba: I
[00:07:11] Chitra: didn't have to budget or anything, and so that was a wake up call. There's limited resources, but I think that the thing was is that At least what I realized is that when I was having those jobs and I had that money on the weekends, I would spend a lot of money on clothes and things like that, that I think it was probably filling somewhat of a void because when I started doing this work in food and I didn't have as much money, I can't say that I wasn't as like, I was, I was really happy because I was, I felt like I was on a path.
[00:07:49] Finally.
[00:07:50] Djenaba: That makes total sense. It's like you, you mentioned like budgeting or whatever. And so like people are always like, Oh, you should think forgo going out to dinner or forgo this or forgo that. And it feels like a hardship. [00:08:00] And then when you have something you're working towards, like it doesn't matter at all.
[00:08:04] You don't care.
[00:08:05] Chitra: Right.
[00:08:05] Djenaba: Yeah. That's so cool. So, okay. So you guys started to just go for it anyway. So what did that mean? Was that like selling at markets? Did you go approach grocery stores first? Like how did that, how'd you, how'd you kind of move forward?
[00:08:18] Chitra: Yeah. So, I mean, I remember the first thing that I did was I started a Shopify site and Ben was like, wait, we need to design this thing.
[00:08:27] And I'm like, no, like, look, I can just literally, and it's
[00:08:32] Djenaba: like
[00:08:32] Chitra: up, Ben's like,
[00:08:35] Djenaba: no, I'm a designer. This is what I do.
[00:08:39] Chitra: I put a storefront up and we started, I looked for a space. I found a space through, and that was the other thing that was really cool is that because I had been doing a lot of these at food events in Brooklyn, a lot of friends had started other consumer packaged goods.
[00:08:55] And so people told me like, this is where you get your jars. This is where you go here. [00:09:00] This is what you do. So I found the space where I started making. My products through the community. And so I was working out of St. John's bread and life, and it's a soup pantry in Bed Stuy. And I was just hand making, um, our chars, our first products there.
[00:09:16] And it was like an education in scaling, even in a small degree, because, you know, from going to making the initial recipe in a pot to doing it, even in a braising pan or in a kettle. Was a huge learning for me, and I'm really thankful for the staff there because they were used to making food for, you know, thousand or hundreds of people, and so working with them actually helped me to just understand, you know, even simple scaling of ingredients and things like that.
[00:09:49] And so then I would make it and then go to markets basically on the weekend. Uh, we were at the Brooklyn Flea and any, any market that would take me really. And I was [00:10:00] selling. And I think that because we were selling a condiment that wasn't as familiar, a char, which is, you know, a staple South Asian condiment that I grew up eating that A lot of people didn't really know, we generated a lot of buzz.
[00:10:14] And so in the beginning, you know, we were getting write ups from Saver, food and wine, like right out of the gate. And that helped us to get into a lot of the specialty stores. So a lot of them had read articles and then they would contact us because we had a website. And then because they would cover us, people then would buy.
[00:10:35] Buy us on that website because we didn't, we weren't very well distributed at the time. And so things just started kind of snowball basically from that point.
[00:10:46] Djenaba: So how long did you stay at the first kitchen before you moved up to something else? Like what was the next step for you guys?
[00:10:54] Chitra: I'd say the next step was I wasn't ready to scale until I got a [00:11:00] PO in my hand.
[00:11:00] So we were doing a lot of the, the trade shows at a time. So I feel like Brooklyn chamber had a trade shows called Brooklyn eats. I don't think they do it anymore, but I remember we went to that trade show. We got a number of leads. We did, um, the fancy food show and that was where we got, I feel like we got like two leads there and it was like PO is in my hand.
[00:11:26] And we, at that point decided that we would look for a co packer to help us to scale. Because we couldn't make enough basically for what those orders were. And that was in year like four, I'd say. Okay. Yeah, I was making it for a long time. And then I was pregnant. I
[00:11:48] Djenaba: remember. Cause that's, that's when I met you.
[00:11:51] I met you like right before you gave birth.
[00:11:53] Chitra: Yeah, I remember we met up in Crown Heights.
[00:11:56] Djenaba: You did. We did. Yeah.
[00:11:58] Chitra: That was so fun. [00:12:00] Yeah. I think it was at Lincoln station. Yeah.
[00:12:01] Djenaba: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:12:03] Chitra: After that, we, we scaled up and also we ended up, you know, getting distribution with Whole Foods and also with Blue Apron.
[00:12:14] And so it kind of just started to grow. And I almost feel like going to the Copacker at that point was good because it, I, I understood how to scale recipes, and so I understood how to work with a co packer because I knew my recipe inside and out. And I knew what, you know, what we could change up and what we, you know, couldn't.
[00:12:38] And I felt like that understanding was key for us. And then it opened me up to do more sales. So that I wasn't in the kitchen as much. And then I could also work on more development of products
[00:12:52] Djenaba: too. I want to talk about Blue Apron a little bit in Whole Foods and like Green Grocery. So it seems like you had diversified revenue streams [00:13:00] from the website and then from grocery and then Blue Apron.
[00:13:03] So can you talk a little bit about the importance of that?
[00:13:06] Chitra: Yeah, no, definitely. So. Well, I guess the blue apron opportunity came to us because we started to realize that while buyers were very interested in them and excited about them, once we got on the shelf, it was kind of hard because a lot of people didn't know what a char was unless I was sampling it.
[00:13:25] Then it would sell, but it wasn't like I could be in every store. So Ben and I started to think about like, maybe we can go this food service route. Or, you know, the meal kit route. And I just happened to have taught cooking classes at Brooklyn kitchen, where a culinary person. Basically someone who had worked there became a culinary person at Blue Apron and she knew the achars and she was like, I think the tomato achar would actually be perfect for their customers.
[00:13:53] Cause it's something new and cool. And for us, it would be great because we're educating people on how it tastes and how you can use it. [00:14:00] So. Um, that it wasn't like, I was like, Oh, we have to diversify. It was more about like a necessity to kind of get the product into more and more people's hands and mouths to, to, to introduce it to them.
[00:14:17] But it was, I mean, later we realized how important that was because like, we're a self funded business, right? So it was like, I put in, you know, what I had, like, just my meager savings to do those, that initial run, right? For Blue Apron. And, It's great because with a company like that, you basically get everything that you invoice, but when you're doing it with, you know, for supermarkets, you don't really get very much of that.
[00:14:48] And so we kind of had that income that we were kind of building up. And then we were able to use that to launch. Two new products that we had pitched to [00:15:00] grocery at Whole Foods. And we had met the buyer at like a fancy food show in San Francisco. And so those two things kind of came together at the right time.
[00:15:10] Because before that, Ben and I were like, okay, we need to make this work. Like, you know, and so we had kind of like all cylinders where we had the blue apron business. We were also providing some food service to some restaurants. We were then starting to work with, you know, the whole foods of the world and also specialty stores.
[00:15:32] And I was still doing some markets and I was doing, we had online sales as well. It was a lot going on all at once. You know, how
[00:15:41] Djenaba: are you able to manage all of that? Cause it, it is a lot. I mean, between the two of you, I imagine that at a certain point you had to hire employees.
[00:15:48] Chitra: Yeah. So I'd say I started, I, I hired my first employee, like not, we don't actually have employees.
[00:15:55] We have more like freelancers or people that. Have like a [00:16:00] monthly retainer. So that was an ops person that came in. Um, this was after I had had my first kid and really needed help. And so she came in to help me with the sourcing and just kind of like running the production runs and things like that. So then I was a little bit more freed up and I could continue to do recipe development and to do sales.
[00:16:26] And then. Slowly we, I started to think that I need some help on the sales side. So then I hired a fractional sales person who basically hooked me in with a bunch of like the, the brokers. So then we started to work with. Brokers at that point. And then I also started to hire, cause I came from marketing.
[00:16:50] So I hired people that could help me on the social media front, but I still was very much kind of, you know, the person that was like leading [00:17:00] strategy. And then we, we then hired like a designer to do more of our digital type, you know, social and emails and things like that. And yeah, so, I mean, I feel like with E as, as we grew, it was very organic as in like, okay, I think it's time.
[00:17:18] Like let's, you know, like let's, let's build up this ops team. So now I have two people in ops, one person that does all the sourcing and production and one person that does all the customer orders because it just becomes like, there's too much work and so I divide it. And the same thing happened with social, where I had one person helping me with just like.
[00:17:40] The posting and the strategy behind there. But then we wanted to work with more influencers. So then I have a coordinator now that works with me on that piece. So it was kind of, you know, just like progressed as, as time went on.
[00:17:54] Djenaba: How did you know you weren't overspending? Meaning like you just described like kind of like a [00:18:00] milestone, like you decided to add people at certain times.
[00:18:02] And I'm just wondering, like, how did you make that decision? Because I have to imagine some people make the decision too early and then they're kind of spending too much money in one area and kind of wishing that they are not. And some people wait too late and they're scrambling. So I'm just kind of curious as to how you figured that out.
[00:18:17] Chitra: I felt like we were at a point where I could see sales kind of like in a cadence. So I understood how much cash I had to work with. And as time went and the revenue started to grow, then I slowly added people to the team. I guess you could say that maybe I was slow. You know, sometimes I'd be like, I need help.
[00:18:43] But I've also, I still take my risk aversion, um, to how I hire people because for me also, I just feel like I don't want to hire somebody and then, you know, a month later I'm like, actually, sorry. No, I really take it seriously when I [00:19:00] bring somebody on to work with us that I can, you know, I can continue to keep working with them and give them the support and pay them back.
[00:19:10] It's worth it. I know.
[00:19:12] Djenaba: So you mentioned you were self funded. Have you ever taken money
[00:19:16] Chitra: from
[00:19:16] Djenaba: anyone?
[00:19:17] Chitra: We do take on loans. So we do that, but we've never like raised equity.
[00:19:24] Djenaba: Got it. I guess why? Cause you've been around 10 years, right? That, that you've celebrated. So I'm just like, at one point people were just, it seemed to be throwing money at brands.
[00:19:34] So I'm just wondering like why you all decided, and you had, you had sales and you could back it up and like a reason why somebody would want to invest. Like, why would you sell it?
[00:19:42] Chitra: I feel like for our brand, I'm just like, we have like such a specific vision. And I just wanted to kind of own that vision for as long as I can.
[00:19:53] And so that was important to me to figure out how to do it on our own terms. And even if we [00:20:00] grew slower. Then other brands, I just feel like there's longevity to this brand. And I, and I feel like what's the rush, you know, I'm not in a rush to go back to a cubicle. I said, I'm doing what I want to do. Like, you know, so I, I kind of like am taking that approach to it.
[00:20:21] And for us, I think the main. Thing is, is that, you know, working capital is probably what is kind of crunching us the most really. And I'd rather not take investment to support working capital. You know, maybe down the line, if there's a new category or, you know, a new line that we want to approach that we really need, that is a risk, you know, that would maybe be where we would look to that.
[00:20:52] But up to this point, I feel like. Every new product that we have launched has [00:21:00] been one that has already been advocated for by a buyer with a P. O. in my hand. So I'm not taking huge risks right now.
[00:21:08] Djenaba: Got it. And then you recently launched new products, right? Can you talk a little bit about those?
[00:21:13] Chitra: Yeah. So we just launched our heat and eat pouches, which are all plant based protein and some of them are fusion.
[00:21:22] So I have like a black bean butter masala and then some are more traditional, um, like our sweet potato coconut dhal. And then we also have a red bean rajma masala and that project was about four years in the making. Oh wow. Wow. Yeah, this also started with a conversation with the buyer at Whole Foods where, you know, they came to us and they were just kind of like, you know, you guys should maybe think about this category.
[00:21:50] It makes sense as an extension to what you're already doing. And so we started work on developing it and we went down pretty [00:22:00] far with a partner. Uh, about a year and a half and it was during the pandemic and there was labor shortage and they basically kind of said that we're just going to stay with the current customers that we have and we had to cancel our launch and it was very, I mean, it was pretty brutal.
[00:22:19] And. I mean, at that point, we also were like, is this maybe a sign that maybe this is not the right path to go? And so we kind of put it on the back burner and we just, you know, let's just go on with our life. But then I randomly went to a trade show and I met another. Brand owner who had those pouches on his tape when I was like, Oh my God, like we were going to do, you know, those patches, they look so awesome.
[00:22:48] And he was like, he's like, I love your brand. And he was like, I have an amazing co packer and I'm going to connect you with them. Because you guys. And so that was like the [00:23:00] push that we needed. And even after that, I remember calling him up and I was like, do you think we should really do this? Like, he's like, Jethro, you need to do this.
[00:23:09] And so then, you know, we picked it back up again and, um, we were able to launch, uh, this last June.
[00:23:18] Djenaba: No, that's very exciting. Congratulations.
[00:23:20] Chitra: Yeah. Thank you.
[00:23:21] Djenaba: You have a wealth of experience. I'm wondering like what advice you have for someone that's just starting out?
[00:23:28] Chitra: I feel like network is everything and community is everything.
[00:23:31] So I feel like it's really important to reach out and talk to as many people as you can about this industry and to really figure out, is it something that you want to do? It's such a hard industry. You have to have like. A thousand percent passion in food and in what you're doing here, because it, it takes a lot of time, grit to just keep going.
[00:23:57] And yeah, I mean, like for me, the [00:24:00] most important part has been building this network and community of other food producers that we cheer each other on and we help each other when we have problems, which is a lot.
[00:24:14] So, and even if it's just a cohort, like, you know, a lot of my cohort are people that started around the same time as me. And so we kind of grew together and we learned together. Right. And as time has gone on, I've gotten more mentors that are further along in the business. And then I help other brands now that.
[00:24:36] Are just starting out. So there's opportunity, I feel like, and, um, there's definitely a lot of founders out there. So just like knock on doors basically, until somebody is like, I can help you. It's weird. I feel like there's a lot of like earth angels too, where just like, there's something that happens when you meet like your earth angel and like, you're just like, why are you [00:25:00] helping me so much?
[00:25:01] I'm like, you know, you do the same to somebody else. And they're like, Helping me so much, you know, like it just makes sense.
[00:25:09] Djenaba: It's really, it's true. Like I've had so much help and I'm like so grateful for it. And just people offering helping hand, making an introduction, like a word of advice. I mean, it's been amazing.
[00:25:21] Chitra: Right.
[00:25:22] Djenaba: Yeah. Love this industry.
[00:25:25] Chitra: Totally.
[00:25:26] Djenaba: Talk about what you do for self care. Like, how are you and actually the family, how are you like taking care of yourself? I can imagine like You could be working all the time and maybe you are. So tell me what you do.
[00:25:38] Chitra: Oh, well, I mean, that's the one thing. So I feel like I used to work on the weekends and now I really just set it aside and hang out with my kids and my family.
[00:25:49] And I, I just feel like. Work is always going to be there and later on in life, I'm not going to regret not [00:26:00] working over the weekend, but I will regret not hanging out with my kids and so I feel like I'm just trying to, to kind of like have that type of a perspective on work in general. I mean, I love for me, I mean, during the week I take like a 45 minute walk every day that just like clears my head.
[00:26:19] And I feel like edibles don't, don't hurt, uh, don't drink alcohol, but I mean, anything to really just like relax and yeah, I, I'm all for it. Nature. Great.
[00:26:41] Djenaba: Hudson Kitchen, we have what we call the money bell that we ring when someone's celebrating something. So I'm wondering, what are you celebrating right now?
[00:26:47] Chitra: Wow, I feel like I have a lot to celebrate. Let's see, I mean, the most obvious thing is probably just launching, you know, the new pouches to hold things.
[00:26:56] I'd say, but you know what? I'm not going to [00:27:00] pick that. I'm going to say taking a vacation. I took a vacation. My real first vacation, I feel like in forever with my kids and it wasn't work related and got to hang out with some old friends and it was pure joy. And I want to celebrate that because I think that we need to celebrate taking breaks more.
[00:27:23] Djenaba: I love that. Thank you so much. Chitra, thank you for being here. Let everyone know where they can find out about you and Brooklyn deli.
[00:27:31] Chitra: Yeah, so Brooklyn Deli on social is just at Brooklyn Delhi and it's D E L H I, or me, I'm just at Chitra, C H I T R A, yeah.
[00:27:42] Djenaba: Thank you.
[00:27:44] Chitra: Thanks so much for having me.
[00:27:47] Djenaba: The Food Means Business podcast was produced by Hudson Kitchen.
[00:27:50] It is recorded at the studio at Kearney Point. and mixed and edited by Wild Home Podcasting. Our theme song is by Damian DeSandis, and I'm your host, Djenaba Johnson Jones. [00:28:00] Follow Hudson Kitchen on Instagram, at The Hudson Kitchen, and to get food business bites right in your inbox, sign up for our newsletter at thehudsonkitchen.
[00:28:08] com forward slash newsletter. Listen, follow, and leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get podcasts. Until next time.